Group Play 2 & Repair
Group Play 2 & Repair w/ Clay, Calpi, Razzum, & Todd
In the Season 1 Finale of the Subspace Exploration Project Clay, Calpi, Razzum Frazzum, and Todd go deep on Group Play and the connections we have built. We discuss how Josh Pieters and Mollie Adler completely fail to understand Lily Phillips or the choices she has made. We recount recent hiccups in communication, how we supported each other, and how we might continue to explore group play while we process certain concerns.
Part 1 Episode Page: https://www.subspaceexploration.com/subspacepod/razzum-holiday-group-play
Care And Feeding Of Werewolves podcast: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/care-feeding-of-werewolves-2158750
RazzumFrazzum on Fet: https://fetlife.com/users/8047623
Lily Phillips: https://allmylinks.com/lillian-phillips10
Josh Pieters on Lily Phillips - I Slept With 100 Men in One Day | Documentary: https://youtu.be/mFySAh0g-MI?si=fO5ZGzo5mzRTq4Mk
Back From the Borderline - sleeping with 100 men in a day: a psychological deep dive into sex, self-harm, and Lily Phillips [Note: Mollie Adler does not appear to have any qualifications as a mental health provider or academic.] https://shows.acast.com/back-from-the-borderline/episodes/lily-phillips-100-men-in-a-day-documentary-onlyfans-reaction
Group Play 2 & Repair w/ Clay, Calpi, Razzum, & Todd Episode Transcript
We're all friends that like to play together, and you don't necessarily have to be the next person who does the, you know, group play.
You can be a support person.
Yeah.
When others get railed by multiple strange cogs.
Yeah.
And you can process it from a different perspective.
You were simply the first.
Yeah.
That's not to say it was the best.
Fortune favors the brave.
That's true.
That's something I learned in like middle high school.
You get a little trophy.
Yeah.
In the season one finale of The Subspace Exploration Project, Clay, Calpi, RazzumFrazzum, and Todd go deep on group play and the connections we have built over the last year.
We discuss how Josh Pieters and Mollie Adler completely fail to understand Lily Phillips or the choices she has made.
We recount recent hiccups in communication, how we supported each other, and how we might continue to explore group play while we process certain concerns.
The Subspace Exploration Project is a personal yet public dive into kink, BDSM, sex, neurodivergence, gender expression, and the queer community.
So, Freddie, we wish you were here.
I wish you were here, Freddie.
I want to give Freddie the biggest hug.
Recently, something came up in the popular lexicon.
I don't know if it came up in the popular lexicon.
It came up on the Internet corner that I was on.
I saw these posts from a mental health existential meme shit poster.
You were following them on Instagram.
Back From the Borderline is their Instagram.
I want to know what she's saying because immediately I'm bristling and I'm like, don't be talking shit about OnlyFans people.
You don't know anything about sex and kink and what people are doing for their lives, for their own benefit.
Stop treating them like they don't know what they're doing.
Yeah, but they're not like adults.
Do we even know that you are being sexualized?
Of course they do.
Stop removing my volition because my consent to activities like that, that's what dictates what becomes trauma in a lot of ways.
I was like, okay, I have to listen to this podcast.
I listened to the whole four hours.
That's in and of itself an undertaking, it sounds like.
What were you doing?
Were you at work?
I was working.
I was working and I was doing a closing shift.
I got progressively more depressed as the shift went on.
I was like, yeah.
Tell us what it was about.
It was just like a breakdown scene by scene, fidget by fidget, word by word of what Lily Phillips is doing, and saying, and talking about in this Josh Pieters documentary.
This Josh Pieters, don't fucking know him, don't really care.
Honestly, he's British white boy, pretty vanilla, regular, like, oh my stars, you're an OnlyFans person sleeping with 100 people.
I simply must tell the world.
Okay.
He seemed to be very in it for the shock value.
Yes.
Yeah.
Or at least just completely naive.
Yeah.
He had a lot of, you know, there was a bit of titillation going on in it as well.
That kind of, oh, isn't this shocking?
This is just, oh my goodness.
Shouldn't you feel some level of, I don't know, shame or what have you?
And she's like, no, not at all.
I don't believe you.
I know that he had a pretty decent following before he did this documentary.
But this was his first foray into pseudo-journalism like...
It's a documentary.
But the thing is, it's certainly, yeah, in the ways that he was trying to play neutral or presented as neutral.
Like, I'm just here to know.
I'm just asking you questions and knowing what's up.
But he, like, for instance, one of my first problems with the documentary is that Lily is like, are you into Kink and BDSM?
That comes up pretty early.
And he's like, no.
And then so they don't really dig into it.
Yeah.
But that's like the whole way her world is framed.
Yeah.
She processes things through a Kink and BDSM lens.
Her concepts of consent and the way she might enjoy 15 to 100 to 1,000 guys.
It's not discussed.
Yeah.
We do not understand her perspective at all because he doesn't bother.
He's like, no, I'm not into that.
I don't understand it.
And instead of asking questions, he just leaves it alone.
He's more focused on how she could do such a thing rather than why and what she receives from it.
And like I started listening to the podcast first and I'm like, wait a second.
I need to go back.
Lily is the subject of the documentary and the analysis.
I need to get as close as I can to understanding Lily Phillips before I can interpret how these people are analyzing this person and their choices.
Yeah.
So you went and you kind of...
I watched the documentary first.
I had watched the documentary and then I had listened to the podcast.
So I knew what she was talking about.
I had seen the documentary already and it bothered me and interested me a little bit the way that she was picking apart everything about what Lily was saying.
She was making a lot of suppositions.
Yes, there was a lot of that.
And so part of it was like, okay, I like, I kind of get that.
You can make some claims about how people are actually feeling based on what they say and what they do.
Kind of, but it's not completely in context because you are completely ignoring the whole subculture that you're not investigating.
Yeah, it's also through Josh Pieters' eyes, which is like, it's the worst possible.
Already narrow view.
I won't say the worst possible, but like-
It's not the worst possible, and it's not malicious.
It's just like, okay.
Extremely out of context.
It's out of context.
One thing I will say about Josh Pieters is that he did an extremely good job at erasing his subject's viewpoint.
And I'm not sure that's a compliment.
I don't think so either.
For sure.
It was like his viewpoint on whatever this was.
His and some old lady that he found in the street.
Yeah.
Well, if you notice-
Surprisingly chill.
They were like, okay, bye.
The old lady in the street was like, my college years were great too.
Yeah.
I mean, if you notice, he keeps harping on things.
He keeps bringing up this idea like, I don't think she knew what she was getting into.
Yeah.
It's like, of course, it's going to be more than you expect.
She also has an entire team.
Yeah.
This is certainly the first time she's fucked a hundred guys.
But she has also recently fucked, what was it?
It was between 20, 30 guys or something like that.
35, I believe it was.
Yeah.
It wasn't like an insane jump.
All of a sudden, this person is like, I'm going to take on this incredible feat.
She was already scaling up to do it.
This is honestly just very cool.
Yeah.
Very admirable.
Yeah.
Really fucking cool.
Difficult.
Yeah.
Really fucking hard.
I think it was soon after she had accomplished this 100 guys, she was like, I'm going for a thousand, which is like-
That's insane.
Not in a hundred days.
I already took her without-
Not in one day.
Not in one day.
12 hours or something.
24 hours.
Yeah, 24 hours.
I mean, maybe she learned some things about, like, all right, how can I-
It's streamlining it.
Streamlining it.
Because if that's something you want to do, you can figure out how to stream line that shit and make it work.
Just logistically, I think it's going to take a couple tries.
She's not going to be able to jump from a hundred to a thousand.
You don't know.
That's an order of magnitude.
Unless you drastically change how you're doing.
That is exponentially different.
You can't give them five minutes each.
I mean, you can't just mathematically in a day.
Yeah.
Break down how many minutes, how much time they would actually get.
Yeah.
Do they have to come mathematically?
I've seen porn where they get 20 seconds.
It's going to have to be something along those lines.
I don't really know what her process was when she was alone with each of those guys.
That's the thing you do.
The logistics is really interesting.
Are they coming in soft and you're like, she kind of describes it at the end.
She's like, yeah, I was like, hey, how are you?
You don't make yourself comfortable.
It's like you're going to have to skip that, Lily.
Yeah.
We need to find somebody competent that understands kink and BDSM, who would be a good person to interview her when she goes and does this, or send them out ahead of time and just do like, what are your plans logistically to do this?
Let's talk about the way people framed your last event, because that was bullshit and nobody bothered to talk to you about your perspective on that.
Yeah.
When she brought up, are you into kink at all?
He was like, no.
She was like, okay.
We don't know that she's into kink and BDSM.
She has to be to some extent if she's like-
But there is some context that's missing.
Yeah.
There's a couple indicators that she very much is, or at least getting into it, which is she brought up hotwifing, which is that tracks with what she's doing.
It's hotwifing just like having a hot wife.
Like when she was sharing your wife.
When she was talking about marrying somebody, potential future partners.
Who wants to loan her out.
Yeah.
Like somebody fetishize it.
Not like a cuck, but somebody who just enjoys seeing her enjoy being fucked.
I think it's a compersion thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I were to psychoanalyze it, it's probably something to do with compersion.
The podcast episode talked about how she would have to just be okay with being fetishized.
Seems like she likes to be fetishized.
She's already there, bud.
I don't think it's weird or bad for ourselves to like enjoy being fetishized sometimes.
Or at least like objectified in some way.
As long as some of the people that you were really trying to connect with can also see the other sides of you and appreciate those things without the fetish time, I think it's perfectly okay.
If you feel like there's balance, you should be good.
Yeah, I mean, it might if it's significantly imbalanced after a while, I'm sure it will get to you.
But so last week, I kind of like overreacted to your response.
Yes, you didn't communicate too well exactly what you were thinking and feeling at the time because you were you were with family.
Yeah, I was with family and I was in my emotions and I was like feeling.
I had said that I was feeling disconnected from the dynamic and from sex and from kink.
I was just like, I'm with family.
This documentary has made it weird for me to think about this part of my life.
Plus, I'm with my family, so I really don't want to be feeling this right now.
You're already facing like judgment from a corner that you're not trying to be.
Right.
I already have a bunch of insecurity about this part of my life and some shame.
You're growing into it.
Yeah, I'm 25.
Of course, I feel fucking weird about this because I'm fresh into it.
You are also purposefully, I think, and it's actually really admirable, purposefully being really safe about exploring things that are purposefully very taboo.
Yeah.
I think that's fantastic.
I went about that the wrong way when I was littler.
When I was like 18 and 19, I was getting myself into really messy situations.
I'm like, if really unsafe things were happening, right?
Yeah.
To see somebody doing it right, it's just, oh my God, it's amazing.
I'm so glad.
That's not to say that adverse feelings can crop up afterwards.
Of course, that might happen.
That's not a reflection that it was a bad decision, or you had a bad time, or that you shouldn't be doing these things.
It is just a situation that brings up those feelings for you.
To have people around you afterwards who know that that might happen or will happen, and to be able to sit and talk about them afterwards with people is really great and healing.
I don't feel that bad about it afterwards because I'm like, oh, it's chill, actually.
All of these shame feelings that I'm having.
I think that's part of the process of unlearning societal shame.
That healing part is just sitting with it afterwards.
Yeah.
Especially if it's like your initial experiences were about trauma.
I think that being able to rewrite your narrative about a lot of trauma is such a huge aspect of healing.
I'm doing it now in my 30s.
Because it's hard.
That healing is really, really hard.
Then when you regress and when you have to reevaluate, when you find a boundary that you didn't realize was there, all of that is really, really challenging and really, really it can hurt a lot.
I ended up listening to an interview with the person who did the podcast, Mollie Adler.
She is a trip.
She was raised, I think, in religion, I think she was Catholic.
Did you end up listening to it?
No, I did not get to it.
Everybody did different things, it seems like.
I listened to the first 45 minutes of the podcast, and I actually had to stop because it was actively triggering.
I got really pissed off listening to her, to the point where I'm going to have to leave this up to other people to analyze this, because I cannot tolerate this woman and what she's doing.
She had already framed things in such a hostile way to Lily, and took shit that she knew better.
Like, specifically, like, she digs in to, like, the people that she works with, her support staff, blurring their faces.
I guarantee you, Mollie knows why these people are blurring their faces, because it keeps Lily safe.
Because Lily has scrubbed her presence.
The only way to get a hold of her is through OnlyFans.
Everybody else has not.
And Mollie chose to misrepresent this information, like, these people are suspicious, because they are doing things to keep Lily safe.
And she's framing it as the fucking opposite.
Yeah, I mean, even outside shots of the Airbnb that they were in is bad opsec.
Yeah.
It's awful.
You know, but I think that I think it's really interesting because Mollie herself is a survivor.
She has this whole existentialism thing going on.
She really loves Carl Jung.
She is a follower of Carl Jung.
Yeah.
But I think that, like, she she has in this interview, it was with Jungian.
Joseph Campbell.
Joseph Campbell.
Yeah.
It was like a podcast.
It was worshiping these Jungian scholars talking a lot about magic and spirituality and everything.
And it was a little woo-woo, right?
Like all of these people that she's name dropping in this interview, were all white people who basically in the 50s, 60s, and 70s found religion or Buddhism or Hinduism and brought it back and did their own kind of colonial, like, you know, big parts of that.
Yeah.
And that it just squicked me out so much because it's like, girl, you are taking third hand information and applying it to yourself and other people who you don't know.
And you're saying, I'm enlightened.
Yeah.
And it's so frustrating because Mollie, like she's obviously very, very smart and she's obviously like very open to listening, but not actually absorbing information.
I think I'm okay with being chastised for saying that too.
You know, like come at me, Mollie.
Like I was saying last night, this is exactly what Joe Rogan was doing listening to Duncan Trussell 10 years ago.
Oh my gosh.
You know, like this third, fourth hand information like, oh, I'm enlightened now.
Let's, you know, let's smoke another joint and talk about humans traveling back in time.
And now they're space aliens or we perceive them as space aliens.
And the stone ape theory and, and you know, all this other pseudo spiritual mystical shit.
Yeah.
And it's, it's frustrating because it's like Mollie, this is like a really bad habit.
I think white folks have been applying to.
Well, it's a pipeline.
It's a pipeline created by white supremacists.
They get into that.
Those hippie spaces to pull people in.
Yeah.
And it's, it's existed for, well, since decades.
Since young and since white supremacy.
Well, the rise of the Victorian Age of Enlightenment was almost inherently racist with the way it started out and the modes of thought that it started out with.
Yeah.
And that's directly gave rise to Carl Jung.
Absolutely.
And that's that, like, that tendency for people to want to, like, pathologize and put labels and boxes and like, this is why you're this way and this and that, and this is what you think about yourself.
And that's what it says about you.
And always failing to go to the source and engage with the source to actually suss that shit out.
You know, doing it from afar and like, I've read Carl Jung so much and, you know, she was name dropping like crazy.
It's like, I don't know who these people are, lady.
I'm not going to do all of this reading.
Like, I cannot imagine.
I also, I kind of panicked last week.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like the podcast we recorded last week shows that even though I was concerned about your response to these things, I feel like I was dealing with it in a responsible way.
I was just like, if nothing else, I need to hit pause on some of these things and be like, we need to sort these things out and I need to know that you feel confident in these choices and anything that you are not feeling sure about, we need to put on hold for a moment.
I mean, it just shook me for a second because I was like, oh my gosh, what if I just didn't check in with any of my boundaries for so long and I found myself in this situation where I'm a popular OnlyFans star and not that that's something I want, but in the multiverse, if I were to find myself in that situation after ignoring my boundaries for so long, that it was just one of my big fears thrown at me, like an example that someone was like, see, this is someone who doesn't check in with themself at all, doesn't know anything about themself and look how they're doing.
And it seems like they're doing fine.
But I would love so much to talk to Lily Phillips.
I would love that.
I also want to know how much money is spent on sex toys.
Just aside from all of that, just how much of her...
I just can't imagine having that many sex toys.
Where would I put them?
The words, I think, self-harm came up when we were talking.
That infuriated me.
That was actively triggering for me.
I want to hear what you have to say about it.
A couple reasons.
First, I'm bipolar, and one of my symptoms with the Manic episode is hypersexuality.
That is a definite symptom.
It is one of the few times where I agree with the pathologic definition of sex as abnormal, because it is an abnormal pattern for me.
So that's hypersexuality.
And then you have things like promiscuity as an act of self-harm.
That draws a line.
That is right on the edge of saying that over so many people, you cannot consent.
You have no more consent left.
It makes consent a finite value.
Yeah.
And at that point, I have to wonder, when I was in my teens and I was being trafficked, what do they have to say about my volition now?
Do they believe that I am able to consent to sex because of my sexual history?
I have been told by therapists that use lines of reasoning quite a bit like Mollie, that I'm not.
That's so dehumanizing.
It really is.
It also creates a lot of self-doubt and like, oh, I don't know myself.
Yeah.
Can I trust myself?
Yeah.
What does that look like?
I mean, which are things that we can grapple with plenty, especially when we get into weirder activities in kink and BDSM.
In fact, I think we should like, am I well-grounded in the decisions I'm making?
Do I feel calm going into this?
And sometimes we don't.
We're like, I'm not in the right headspace for this.
That's usually what we say.
You know, like, it takes practice.
Let's wait a week or whatever it is, you know, not today.
It doesn't quite feel right.
Yeah.
We've had a couple of conversations like that.
Yeah.
And I think we should sort through our headspace and before going into each and every engagement, we shouldn't be on autopilot and trust our partners to guide us through things.
We need to act.
We need to check in every single time.
But yeah, the starting from an assumption that you are incapable of making such complex decisions.
Genuinely enjoying something.
Yeah.
That others might think means you were in league with Satan.
It's fucking silly.
Yeah.
And disrespectful.
Because what it does is Mollie and Josh were essentially saying is that Josh, out of all those people in that little triangle there, Josh is the only person who can actually make that decision.
Which is why he kept trying to remind, I don't think that you are capable of making this decision for yourself.
Yeah.
When did he say that though?
What things were he saying that were that?
He planted doubt.
Yeah.
He kept trying to steer her.
Narrative.
Framing of it, how she would summarize the experience as, I betrayed myself, I, you know.
Even her crying.
Yeah.
When I was initially looking for Mollie's podcast, all of the headlines about his documentary was like she was crying.
And like she reflects back on regret, blah, blah, blah.
And it's like.
Which she never did.
At least.
She never did.
At least not in that documentary.
She might have at some point since.
But if that's the case, why would she sign up for Another Thousand People?
Yeah.
You know, obviously, because she's a self-harmer.
Here's the thing is I'm.
And we can open this up for discussion as needed.
There is nobody that I know of that doesn't harm themselves in some way, consciously or unconsciously.
Yes.
Thank you.
Or at least dance around, come up to that line.
Yeah.
Pretty regularly.
We all have a vice.
Obviously, there's accepted forms of self-harm.
There's taboo forms of self-harm.
There's self-harm that is dangerous.
Like, that's the whole point, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
People who go out and skydive that self-harm, like.
Drink.
Yeah.
People who drink alcohol.
And go fucking drive.
Yeah.
I've only had five beers.
But like, like, like the concept, I think of self-harm, it's like tattoos or drinking or smoking cigarettes even.
I'm like, it's not unheard of, right?
Like we had medically back in the day, dentist shows, like dentist shows was all about showing people how painful getting a tooth pulled was.
You know what I mean?
We used to watch executions.
I feel like we've gotten a little bit better, but a lot more covert about the ways in which we got to be a form of self-harm.
I'm watching you go through the worst thing, and I'm like, this cannot be good to me.
They put those big ass windows in front of fitness centers, right?
Yeah.
I see what those crossfitters do to themselves.
Not normal people.
Not my thing, actually.
At the end of this documentary, she's crying.
She's crying in the middle of this interview with this white boy that has no idea what the fuck she just went through because he wasn't even allowed in the room.
She's crying and, bro, that's sub drop.
Yeah.
That's somebody who just ran for 20 hours straight.
I also want to say that, and Freddie, you said something about this in your previous talk with Todd, about loving to be of service, right?
A fetish need for me to be an object of pleasure for somebody else.
So taking that and being like, if we were to talk about Lily and in more of a kink lens, that sub drop that's happening afterwards after a big emotional release.
A marathon.
A marathon.
Just ran a marathon.
She was hyper attentive to 100 people.
She got hers and most of them got theirs over the course of this 12 hours.
24.
24 hours.
But-
It was 12.
Was it 12?
112 hours.
To engage with 100 people in that way and to get that reward, for the most part with every single one of them.
But it gets you in this heightened state, this stressed out state and then finally, when you get a chance to relax and you talk with this normie guy for a couple of minutes, you're like, it all comes to a head and then you're going to vent, you're going to cry, you're going to cycle through all these emotions.
That's the whole-
Especially if the person you're talking to is focusing on the negative.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
For her to have been like, I hope everybody just had a good time.
I'm worried about the guys that I couldn't get there, or they only got a few minutes less than they expected.
She also, she regretted the fact that she couldn't remember a lot of them.
Yes.
Which I think is one of the sweetest things I've ever heard a porn star say.
It feels like it's coming from that-
Yeah.
From my perspective as a submissive and also someone who has a big fetish need for being of service and to be enjoyed by other people.
That feeling is absolutely real, even though it doesn't fucking matter if they all super enjoyed themselves.
It's like microdosing tiny bits of disappointing someone.
Yeah.
You can't help but have those feelings of like, what if someone was really disappointed by this experience?
And then Josh and Molly are like, why does it even matter?
And I'm like, okay, well, neither of you guys know shit about it.
The type of habit.
And what do you guys do that is kinky?
Like nothing?
Oh, okay, shut the fuck up.
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is that everybody, whether they realize it or not, are engaging in things that we understand, and like as people that are into kink and BDSM, we have picked apart and understand the reward systems and the healthy and the unhealthy aspects of these things.
Plenty of vanilla people, most vanilla people engage in things that are very normalized.
I don't think even a lot of kink and BDSM folks really look at.
But like in patriarchy, the structure of patriarchy, there are DS elements to it that that normies rely on, they get off on, but they don't, we don't really look at it as spicy as kinky.
Do you have an example?
The subservient housewife.
That alone.
I'm getting off on you being a subservient housewife, and I'm getting off on myself being a subservient housewife.
Yeah, we say, yeah, this is what the Bible says, and this is why we prescribe it here in the West, 2,000 years later, whatever.
But that, I mean, that's it.
And people who talk about decolonizing kink will talk about how the church would use this kind of violence and embed this kind of violence into cultures around the world, and that's why it is everywhere.
It is so pervasive.
Kinky people learn how to approach these things that we're conditioned from a very, very early age to embrace on some level.
We sometimes often find better ways, healthier ways to do it.
Some, you know, I want to say safer ways that mitigate certain kinds of harm.
Those of us, us and Lily Phillips are more likely to be able to mitigate the risks than the normies who don't bother to learn about any of this stuff.
I'm remembering this one thing that Mollie said in her episode of like, Lily Phillips, if you're listening, let me interview you, girl.
I think it could be a much more enlightening interview.
And I'd like the words that she chose was like, it would be better for you to come talk to me so that you can realize some things about yourself.
And it's like, that's so weird.
That's so weird.
Like, you are tearing every single little thing that she is doing apart.
What the fuck makes you think she wants to come talk to you?
Yeah.
And like, Mollie, you weren't there.
You weren't there.
You weren't there to do the interview.
You weren't there for What's His Name?
Josh Pieters.
You weren't there to do a collab.
It's weird.
It's weird.
And it's such a low sample size, just such a low sample size that like none of this can possibly be accurate, right?
I mean, maybe there's some truth to it.
It's like a medicine study.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I also imagine that Lily was probably very nervous to be in this interview and be like, okay, so, yeah, do you know anything about kink?
And he's like, no, of course, I would be fucking nervous to share anything about my sex life, which is my career with you.
There is a part of kink is that there is an amount of fear, right?
There is an amount of vulnerability and there is an amount of questions that you're trying to find answers for.
And I think it's really interesting that nobody fucking asked them.
And it's so frustrating.
So frustrating.
I have a lot of animosity right now for Mollie Adler.
And seriously, Mollie, please, please, please, please come at me.
Well, and yeah, I mean, like, Lily has partners and close friends that she works with that help to maintain feelings of safety and security.
Yes.
During these encounters.
I'm so glad that she had that.
And the thing is, is that nobody pointed a spotlight on any of that.
You know, so she was as safe or safer than most people that go out, you know, go to a bar and actually harmful situations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, potentially dangerous things.
She had security.
Yeah.
And her assistant even said, like, we're so glad that we ended up finding security for this because it was really helpful and it made Lily feel safer.
And it's like, that is perfect.
That's exactly what I would want in a group situation, right?
And I feel very lucky that I found that.
But I also think that without that, it's 99 percent of the time for everybody else who isn't a sex worker.
You know, you're not going to have proof of sex tests all the time.
You know what I mean?
You're not going to have somebody's physical ID on record.
People get really mad on field if you ask them for their home address, just from personal experience.
It's like, where am I going then?
I'm not just meeting you at the park.
It's wild to me that like in this incredibly, and I'll stop ragging on Mollie here in a minute, but I think in this incredibly, like so much rich material.
I know.
I'm going to get sued.
It's okay.
You can only make my credit better.
Like it's amazing to me that you're not even making that an observation.
Of course, I didn't listen to the four-hour podcast of Mollie ripping her apart.
So I don't know if that was any part of it, but I know from her interview, that is not something that Mollie cares about.
No.
Not at all.
Yeah.
No.
Mollie cares about deep psychological trauma and how to talk about it.
Yeah.
And it's important.
Unfortunately, I think she's finding it in consensual sex.
Yeah.
Presenting yourself as important in talking about other people's trauma.
More importantly.
Yeah.
Or perceived trauma.
I guess so.
Anybody who has a podcast, I would argue is presenting themself as like, I have an expert.
I have something to say on this and here's why you should listen.
Well, yeah.
I just make funny noises on mine.
Sure.
And they're important to listen to.
I'm going to talk about that time I ate Panda Express from a dumpster in the mall.
Let's talk about that.
That's interesting.
Thank you.
I would rather hear about that than a deep psychological analysis that didn't need to happen.
Yeah.
But when you did listen to it, it caught you at a bad moment where you were vulnerable.
An insecure time about specific insecurities that I had.
And I was like, I want to get really...
Okay, Macaulay Culkin.
I want to get really specific.
What are those insecurities?
You don't have to answer this.
That's real.
Some specific insecurities are that I don't actually know myself and that I'm not having enough inner reflection to make good decisions for myself.
Yeah.
Impulsivity or trusting what someone else is telling me without...
It's true.
This is exactly...
This is a great example.
I heard this documentary and this podcast and I was like, you're right.
After talking about it and thinking about it, I was like, oh, wait a minute.
This doesn't make sense.
But do you need to give Mollie her credit?
She's good at what she does.
Sure.
And she designs it to catch people in vulnerable states, to convince them that porn is bad, sexual liberation is bad.
And really Joe Rogan-y.
Yeah.
I mean, me personally, I didn't get that feel from her.
I don't think I didn't.
It's very covert.
Sure.
And it's not your fault either.
No.
I certainly did feel stupid for a second when you were like, oh, actually Calpi and RazzumFrazzum are like, we're all looking at this thing.
And I'm like, guys, guys, don't, I'll figure it out.
It's okay.
Right away, you told me, you did say, I want to discuss this with my peers.
Yes.
And when I said that, I meant I need to talk to my best friends about this.
I'm happy to talk about this with you guys.
I think it's fucking great content.
We all have a lot of shit to say.
The people that I was talking to do know me.
Yeah.
And know me very well.
And they don't know kink as well.
And so I needed that, like I needed people who knew me really, really well.
Who were looking through like a similar lens.
Yeah.
I totally get that.
Even though I only know them on a limited basis, I did trust them to know you.
Well, good.
And to not side with the anti-kinkster people.
No.
They're all very critical people.
And also, I wanted to make sure that people that were very familiar with kink looked at this as well and made sure to give you that additional critical analysis.
And especially in a conversation that once you and I actually connected, it was like two days ago that we connected on this.
And I got to fully communicate how I was feeling and how it made you feel and repair and whatever was happening.
We also talked about, you said, I don't actually know your specific traumas.
I don't know what's really happened to you.
And in hearing that, my mind started running through all of the traumas that I've had.
And I'm like, oh, this is important information.
And a specific instance that has stuck with me through everything that I'm realizing, oh, I still feel really scared that if I speak up about like, I don't think I'm comfortable with this or I don't know about this, or if I express any doubt, it's going to get steamrolled.
And you're like, are you sure about this though?
What if we just do it anyway?
What if we just keep going?
Let's try it.
And so my default is like, okay, fine.
We'll just keep doing it.
And that's really scary.
That feeds into the like, I don't know myself.
I don't know my boundaries.
Yeah.
And like you and I, like when we started to develop a dynamic, like I think we felt a lot of trust for each other.
And we like, we kind of skipped past all that, like discussing relationship life talks.
Yeah.
We did to some extent, like every now and then about different things as they came up and.
Yeah.
As needed, like as it was, you know, because I got a little bit directly, you know.
This is my first like very involved DS dynamic.
And I'm figuring out how to do this.
I have nothing else to go off of.
I have no other examples.
You're ahead of the curve though, for sure.
Thank you.
Kind of like a gifted and talented student.
Well, also, we're fortunate because of this podcast to get a chance to talk to some very learning, experienced people.
Not learning.
At least in my case.
No, no, I'm still fucking up.
Don't worry.
You know, like we can...
It was so cool to, like, things that came up in your life.
And based on some of my observations, we were able to go check back in with Jessica Fern about some polydynamic shit.
Yeah.
You actually, you brought up a question.
It's like something I was going through in that podcast.
I was so excited because I was like, oh, I need to get to the Jessica Fern one.
And my question was in there.
That's so exciting.
We talked about this.
That's really exciting.
Yeah.
I think the basis of a lot of relationships often has as traditionally, at least for me personally, somebody who's had a lot of non-traditional and traditional relationships, has a lot of that trauma talk right from the beginning.
And that's something that I've had to learn to take back.
Not everybody needs to hear about my trauma, right?
Because one of my coping mechanisms to connect with other people, I'm autistic, I have ADHD, I have CPDSD and an existing TBI.
And so I'm forgetful, I'm gullible, I'm vulnerable in a lot of ways.
But one of the ways in which I try and make friends and I try and be sociable is, I share my vulnerabilities so that they can come meet me where I'm at.
Share their vulnerabilities.
And we can connect over them or whatever.
And so it creates a lot of trauma bonding or whatever.
But I think that knowing when to stop is really hard.
Because I work really well with direct questions, which is why I'm probably not ideal for podcasts.
Because I could go on for a while.
But you have a lot of really good direct questions that you ask, which is a strength.
Thank you so much.
That's so nice.
But I think that it's such a baseline conversation to have in a traditional relationship that when you are outside of the context of a traditional relationship, such as a dynamic that you're, are you new to the type of dynamic?
Sort of.
Yeah.
Have you had another dynamic like this?
Not to this extent, not as involved as this.
I've had a dom before and we've done a few things, but it wasn't like a dynamic.
Yeah.
It didn't go this deep.
No, not at all.
So you are skipping a lot of the traditional like, let's go on a date, let's go on a date.
Learn more about our families and-
What are your parents like?
How did your father damage you?
We didn't have that.
Like I was saying, you build this trust, and then you kind of just assume like it'll come up when it needs to be addressed.
Yeah.
And sometimes it does.
Yeah, exactly.
Which is great.
And other times then you're like, oh, we've kind of breezed past this a lot.
We've never gotten to this.
And then like it all kind of came to a head like, like the other day I realized I'm like, I don't know the risks.
I don't completely understand the risks that I'm taking work.
And if you don't know the risks, you don't know the safety plan.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, that's a big, big thing.
Yeah.
So I turned to you.
I'm like, I need to get a better understanding of you because you have concerns.
And as you told me about these, you know, the trauma, I'm like, oh.
And then you need, I'm like, oh.
Like, that makes sense.
And then you need to know that, like, that information is being listened to and taken care of.
Yeah.
But it's like, how are you supposed to do that?
Unless a boundary is breached, right?
Yeah.
Unless you hit a wall where it's like, wait, this, whoa, whoa, guys.
You know, like, I think that is a quintessential practice in kink, is finding boundaries.
Yeah.
And I keep learning that lesson.
Yeah.
Over and over again, even in non-kink related relationships, like, I have friendship maintenance that needs to happen, and I need to know what the boundaries are in those friendships.
And it's, it's come down to like pronouns.
Yeah.
Or, you know, like, I keep accidentally using the wrong pronouns for a recently coming out friend, right?
Or whatever.
And like, stuff happens.
Yeah.
And you, I think you are at the perfect age.
And I'm sorry.
I know.
I'm 33.
And I've made a lot of mistakes.
But you're at the perfect time in your life right now to still be made out of plastic.
Yeah.
You know, I've got like a couple more months till my frontal lobe is like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Solid.
Yeah.
Learn an instrument.
Learn a language.
But like putting these emotional practices into your tool belt is such a huge, huge thing to do at your age, because I'm doing it right now and I'm late and I'm tired.
Yeah.
You know, it takes a while.
It's practice.
It takes a while to even realize what we need to be doing.
But like, yeah, like like you were saying, checking in, and Freddie and I were talking about this last week, you know, making sure that we are taking time to check in with these new experiences.
Yeah.
To make sure that it was of your own volition, and how did it make your body and mind feel?
And should we dabble in that again?
Should we give it a little while before we return to it?
That kind of stuff.
And it's okay to not know.
Yeah.
I was going to say, there's a lot of times where we do stuff and you're like, how is that?
And I'm like, fine.
Give me like, give me a minute.
Yeah.
Well, and in those situations, it seems like it might be better because usually you're like, okay, it's fine.
Let's try it again sometime.
And now I'm realizing like, okay, well, maybe it might be what it might work better for me to just let that sink in, open the door.
Sorry.
Just to just process that for a little bit and then come back and ask for more of it.
Yeah.
And that's what Freddie was saying is like, have it served to me.
Yeah.
Give you an opportunity to ask for it.
Like the group play stuff, that's pretty heavy stuff, ultimately.
It's really scary.
It's very hot, but it's really scary.
Some of the most scary shit that I've done so far.
And I want to be able to trust that it's not my fetish because it definitely is one of my bigger fetishes.
Yeah.
It isn't pushing us to do these things more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know.
So I want to, and I know it is hard for you to ask for some of these things.
Yeah.
And you're going to have to develop those skills.
But I think it is important, like Freddie said, to leave it up to you to say, okay, my holes, my body, is my mind is ready for this.
I actually don't have holes.
I want that on the record.
There's no holes.
I have no orifices.
It's all smooth and flat.
Yeah.
Barbie doll.
Barbie doll.
Yeah.
But I am ready.
I am ready.
Please, please provide this kind of scene for me again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And just like it made me think about, I mean, that exactly and becoming so comfortable with the dynamic that you have and like all these ideas that you want to help bring to life, like any fantasies I have that intersect with what you have is fantasies and your drive to like want them to come to life and make it happen and like have a cool experience for me and a cool experience for you is like I've become so comfortable to just be like, yeah, just, you know, do the thing.
I'll let you know if I'm crying.
How about that?
And I don't want it to be like that anymore, actually.
And the great thing is that we're all friends that like to play together and you don't necessarily have to be the next person who does the group play.
You can be a support person when others get railed by multiple strange cogs.
Yeah.
And you can process it from a different perspective.
You were simply the first.
Yeah.
That's not to say it was the best.
Fortune favors the brave, though.
That's something I learned in like middle high school.
You get a little trophy.
Yeah.
If someone's like, all right, who's first?
I'll just be like, fucking me or you guys?
Me because no one will laugh at me because I went first.
Yeah, idiots.
What do you think, Freddie?
You, on the other hand, have had some experience, positive and negative experiences, and you did speak to this a little bit last week in group play.
What was your experience like with group stuff?
Because I think that's generally like, yeah, I think it is one of the scariest ones.
With group stuff, my first couple encounters with group play were not consensual.
Oh, jeez.
Okay.
Like I said, I was trafficked as a teenager.
Group play.
Yeah.
Okay.
So group play consensual.
That always started organically for me.
Nice.
So it's not been a consistent thing throughout my life, but it was always something that started because the vibe was just right.
Nice.
So going into something that's been organized, that's like-
Yeah, it's gilly.
But considering the risks, like what could potentially happen, especially if you want, if anybody is interested in like an anonymous vibe, there needs to be extensive planning.
Right.
Extensive thought put into it.
We used to do a thing a month after Valentine's Day.
We were like, let the vanilla people have Valentine's Day.
March 14th was Steak In A Blowjob Day.
We would get together, cook steaks, and give each other blowjobs.
I mean, it was awesome.
Wait, that's what I do on Valentine's Day though.
I sit at home and eat chocolate on Valentine's Day.
I don't really pay attention to that one, but Steak In A Blowjob Day.
No, that one's awesome.
And those were always really great bonding experiences with my polycule, my extended polycule that I had.
But beyond that, group play has always been a very organic sort of thing for me.
So going into it with a different dynamic like this, this lets me explore things like a little more anonymity, a little more, you know, in a way, a little more control over the situation on my end.
Because I can say right up front like this, this, this and this, I do not want.
And this, this, this and this, I do want.
There have been times that I've had to step out of group play because ACDC came on.
And ACDC is actually a trigger for me.
Oh, that sucks.
In that context.
Fuck.
I'm sorry that it's music.
Fuck, man.
Yeah.
Luckily, it's two bands that I'm just not really never been into.
It's ACDC and Pantera.
I think there's a lot of nuance that's missing from the Lily Phillips stuff.
I'm sorry that it was so affecting.
Yeah.
I think that really sucks.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, Mollie is kind of just a woo woo scream on the top of a mountain.
She got in my head.
She sure does think she's Moses.
That's pretty weird.
Like, again, she should call me.
Sorry she doesn't do that whisper yell.
Oh, yeah.
How are you doing today?
But I'm just, I'm sorry that it was so affecting and it hit you at such a weird time.
Yeah.
I mean, it so happens that it also led to some like really good healing and connection afterwards.
I think what was going on is that when you're unlearning certain dynamics, certain social norms, and you've got it mostly, you've adjusted your lifestyle away from it and you're branched out, and then you find something that so firmly reasserts those norms, like those two, like that documentary and that podcast, that can cause those worldviews to come slamming back into place.
Yeah, it's not a failure of critical thought or anything like that.
It's a knee-jerk reaction.
Yeah.
You did not fail here.
No, no.
Mollie failed.
And also, you were focusing on working.
You're absorbing this stuff.
You had to have something on.
If you were, if you hadn't been working.
The circumstances were perfect.
Yeah, you were more vulnerable to it.
You were absorbing it, not completely thinking about it.
Had it been a different time, you might have responded.
You might have been like, wait a second.
I don't know about that.
My first reaction was to check out Mollie.
I think that's a very good practice.
That was what I went with too.
I'm like, well, I want to go check out the actual Lily Phillips documentary and see how much of her we actually get from that and then go.
I started looking back at descriptions.
I have some descriptions stuck on my phone in screenshot form that are like, whoa, okay, okay, whoa.
What I gleaned just from the descriptions, I'm like-
I want to read one.
They're fucking weird.
Yeah.
You know, pseudo-intellectual Joe Roganee type is what I came up with just from the descriptions.
That are pages long, by the way, very long.
It's like, no, we can listen to the podcast.
I simply listened and threw my phone in the other direction.
Yeah.
It was just-
What you-
Usually, I'm pretty good about being like, this made me feel weird, like I haven't acted like aligned with my values or something.
Usually, I'll probably check out the information that I've just consumed that made me feel a certain way.
Absolutely.
But I just wasn't in that headspace.
Feel free to contact, you can send something to me and be like, what is this?
What's your impression of this?
Yeah.
Same here.
Yeah.
I'm not going to be perfect at it.
I might even be on the same level as you, but we can at least come at it together.
You know what I mean?
I think that there was a little bit of a breach, but I think it was ultimately very helpful.
It sounded like you needed time to stew.
One thing, we haven't really picked apart your experience yet, and I'm sure you're still processing the group play experience, which was what?
Like three weeks ago, three, four weeks ago now?
Yeah.
So it's like, which is good.
Take a break before we jump back into it.
I would love to hear what you had to say about it.
I don't have that many thoughts about it, really.
Was it fun?
It was fun.
It was fun.
Was it difficult?
Sometimes, yeah.
Are you okay?
I'm okay.
Okay, cool.
Well, that's the beginning of a conversation.
Well, it was also poking in my insecurities of like, because I have also was having conversations with my family and my friends about like, so maybe you'll move to another city.
What are you going to do?
What kind of job are you going to have?
Then I think back to like, well, I really like doing this podcasting thing and like talking about sex and kink and sex education.
But there's no clear cut moneymaker path for me doing that.
So I was like, girl, what am I even doing?
Am I just on the tailcoats of whatever the fuck Todd wants to do?
I think chronically unemployed person.
Bro, I feel that really hard.
What am I doing?
Yeah, I don't know.
So I just had all of these insecurities like, I don't want to think about the podcast.
I don't want to think about the dynamics that I have.
I don't want to, like-
That's okay.
I was just scared of it all that I didn't want to have a fucking conversation about it.
Yeah.
I think there was also this fear that-
Which is unfortunate because that's why I panicked.
With what information you did give me because it did clue me into some of what was actually going on.
I was feeling unsure at you towards your direction of you.
But you were also like you were in a mood to not communicate the additional things that I needed you to communicate.
Do you feel like our conversation, which I know you don't have a lot of context for-
No, none.
Was helpful.
Yeah.
I mean, it was where I was already settling into.
Yeah.
I mean, I was-
Which was essentially, I think, what we want from the people that care about us when we're going through this.
As somebody who has experienced trauma in relation to different types of dynamics, is we want them to either be able to engage with us in a healthy way, in a way that isn't harmful, that reasserts trust, and for them to leave the porch light on, leave me the fuck alone, so that I can come over when I need to and be like, okay, here's what I've got.
This is really scary for me, and they can be like, okay, cool, let's sort it out.
Yeah, right.
And so that's kind of what I told you to do was just sit back, open the door, and just let Clay come communicate.
Yeah.
Right.
Is that what happened?
Yeah.
Sick nasty.
But I feel like he was, and I was like-
You were nervous.
I was terrified that I might be hurting him.
I was also like preparing myself mentally and emotionally.
Like if I had to completely disengage for whatever reason.
Which is very difficult.
Yeah.
You know, like, and, you know, it's kind of, it was kind of breaking my heart a little bit, but like-
I felt that.
I'm like, but, you know, I need to be more than anything.
I need to be supportive of him and what he's going through and giving the space to process.
But then, like, also, what I was making sense of, which wasn't too far off even though I got some details wrong, because communication was minimal.
There was some assumptions happening, because of a lack of communication.
So when he listened to the podcast that Freddie, you know, Freddie and I had had a talk last week, Clay's like, what?
What?
Well, yeah, you were saying things and I was like, bitch, you haven't watched the documentary, you haven't listened to the episode, you're speaking on things you don't know.
We haven't talked about how I'm feeling, and you were like, kind of, I'm going to have a podcast episode on this right now.
And part of me was like, not.
Why do you do that?
Yeah.
But I think I think it's very important to communicate first before the podcast happens.
Todd.
But but well, the thing is, is that I was in a panicked state.
I was kind of like.
It was reactionary.
It was very I was I was having, well, I was having an emotional response.
I needed to figure out the ethics of what I was doing over all big picture and what I need to do in this moment of feeling unsure both myself and him.
So that was the question.
That was mostly what he and I were, Freddie and I were talking about was, what do I do right now?
Nothing.
And you and I as well.
Yeah.
Those conversations were.
And the thing is, is that for the podcast, sometimes show some of the more glowing, happier aspects of things.
But also I think it's important to show how to respond when there's doubt.
And conflict resolution.
Yeah.
Essentially what I told him is, it's not even about you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, but it's about Clay.
Well, but no.
He had his own feelings about it.
Yeah.
But it's not just because it does relate to the dynamics, not just his response to that thing or doubts about himself.
It's also how he and I relate.
So I understand why you were like, oh, fuck, what did I do?
How does this involve me?
I mean, it doesn't have everything to do with you, but it does have some to do with you.
It has a lot to do with our dynamic and the way we're going about things together.
My reaction was, at first it was like, wait a second, what did I do?
Then it was like, oh shit, what did I do?
I just realized just now, I think it's because it's ingrained in your identity.
You know what I mean?
That like, the practices that you've developed.
Yeah.
It's this man of you.
Yeah.
It's ingrained in how you see yourself, how you perceive yourself and how you want to be perceived.
I don't know why I'm just now thinking about this, but like-
I guarantee you, I've thought about it plenty.
Oh, no, I'm sure.
No, but it's just like, it's the same thing with being an artist.
If you aren't making art or if you aren't doing the thing you're passionate about that is part of who you are, if you're not doing that, what are you?
You had a lot of like, oh, this piece of my identity is that there is a vague threat of it being taken away from you.
So what do you do with that and what does that make you?
Does that make sense?
No.
Am I making sense, Freddie?
Can you?
I'm not sure what piece of identity you're talking about.
Oh, just the way Kink and BDSM have functioned for you.
You've told me several times that even when you were really, really young, it was a formative thing.
Yeah.
A piece of who you are, a piece of your identity.
If you're not doing that piece of your identity, you may be right, quote, unquote.
Yeah.
Or if you're dysfunctional, right?
Well, yeah.
No, I mean, like I've operated in dysfunctional ways and not addressed it plenty in my life.
But no, at this point in my life, it's like because I'm actively in dynamic and regularly engaging in Kink, I think the stakes are much higher than they have been in the past.
And I'm like, I don't want to cause harm.
I want to cause plenty of pain.
I love causing pain.
Sure.
But I do not want to cause harm.
And I was like in tears the other day telling Clay, I'm like, you know what?
I do not want to break you.
Like I'm terrified of actually causing lasting harm.
I just want to say in that I was talking and I could see your mustache in like a frown, like.
I do not have a feeling about this right now.
And that's where like shame in sex and stuff, that's the shit that I've already worked through.
Like I have no problem getting naked with my little dick and my flat ass.
This motherfucker, I swear to God.
Yes, flat ass.
I think it's cute.
It's a cute little butt.
You have to have a huge bubble.
But when it comes to having emotional needs, I've been...
You think you're healed.
I'm still working through feeling like I'm entitled to communicate, have needs and to communicate, ask for things, ask for space.
Or even ask for clarification or like understanding when you're feeling unsure.
That's one of the things that we do with our journal entries, is that I read your journal entries so that you have somewhere to put those uncertainties, so that you know that they're important to me and that I want to hear about them.
But also, I feel like one of the things that we came to recently was that the journal system isn't 100 percent effective, as effective as we need it to be sometimes.
I mean, it should not be relied upon to be like, okay, so that's a clear look inside of your head.
No, because my journal entry is a mess of thoughts and feelings that are being vomited onto the page and I am not rereading any of it.
Yeah.
I don't know what it says.
Same.
I don't either.
So whatever you're reading from it and taking away, I have no idea and I don't think it's an accurate reflection of like...
And I just I feel like with all so much going on these last three or four months or so, I think our communication has been more and more limited to just the journal entries or at least compared to the past.
So we're having, we're not making the time, and we especially with the kinds of kinking we're doing, we need to make sure to make, have the time to reflect and discuss things, reflect on and discuss things.
And coffee dates, yeah.
Coffee dates.
Yeah.
He keeps coming to coffee dates.
I don't keep getting to go to coffee dates.
Well, why not?
Well, I don't know, cause let's get you to a bunch of other stuff.
Yeah, like.
Yeah, it's pretty true.
We talk about stuff when you're inside of me.
How are you doing?
Yeah, I think we need more downtime, chill time.
Yeah.
I think maybe do this somewhat regularly too.
Like, check in and talk about personal shit and pop.
I'm a very interesting person.
I know.
So now we're almost at an hour and a half.
Okay.
I'm actually starting to think this is going to be broken up into two.
No.
Well, that means we can add another 30 or so.
Oh, okay.
Cool.
But I think this was a great talk.
We definitely need to hang out face to face.
Yes.
Like all of us.
We could talk more.
I could say more.
If we do it regularly, I can work it into my travel budget.
You felt weird.
I felt weird after the podcast, after the documentary.
Do you feel like we have covered basically everything around that, that needs to be covered?
I think so.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Your interactions with Todd, the assumptions and everything, do we feel like that is covered?
I think so.
Okay.
Is there anything else you want to say about it?
No, other than like seeing Todd cry about being terrified to cause harm to me was-
Someday, I'm going to make you cry.
Really fucking moving?
I'm so excited for that.
Yeah.
It was annoying?
No, I said it was moving.
At first, I was like, Oh, don't cry.
Do not cry.
Then I was like, actually, I'm crying now because-
No, I just think you need to get hit with a vampire glove one time, and I just want to see your face when it happens.
Should we do that after this?
Hit you with a vampire?
No, I think we need to do it in the coldest.
Can I get hit by a vampire glove?
Yeah.
I'll send Calpi up with the gloves.
I'm not very, I can't, I should.
You're the only person going, so you're going to have to.
I'm going to have to, bud.
If I, so here's the thing.
Okay, so, Freddie, I think you kind of could glean this from things, but I cannot dom at all.
I'm nearly incapable of doing it.
The closest I can get is edging on purpose as like brat behavior, right?
So, but what I can do is I can be domed into doming.
Sure, sure, I can work with that.
I could be told, okay, you have to do this or else you're going to get punished.
Then I have to do my very best to do it.
I'll guide you over Riverside, okay?
We'll do another like a Patreon episode.
But otherwise, I'm just like, do you need a pillow?
Like, are you okay?
Are you thirsty?
So I had this dynamic that was a lot like that at one point.
Like, he needed to be told how to top me.
So I was doming from the bottom.
It was like, more pain, more pain, more, more, more.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Never do it again.
Yeah.
I feel like I have that with Clay, where we'll both just kind of team up and sub together at Todd.
I honestly think it will be pretty easy for me to like, I don't know if I would be much of a dom, but I can absolutely rap from the top.
Oh, sure.
I would have no problem telling you how to hit Freddie.
Being like, no, no more.
This is what I'm talking about when I say that there's a top shortage is like, this shouldn't happen.
Yeah.
Okay.
We need tops.
Switches are tops.
We need them now.
They're just fucking babies about it.
Switches are tops that got tired.
That's right.
Yeah.
Switches are tops that are-
I'm too old to be a top.
My shoulders won't take it.
It feels really good to talk about this with you guys.
I don't feel like I don't know myself.
I feel I have the confidence in knowing myself and what I like, and that things are okay.
I have that back, and it took some time to process alone and to talk about it with Todd and the rest of you to be like, oh, yeah, this is fine.
Those people fucked up.
Those people made a weird thing for me to listen to, and of course, I had this reaction to it.
Of course, you did.
Of course, you did, and I cannot imagine how lonely in the moment that that felt.
Felt very lonely.
Felt fucking weird.
I was with my sister, her wife, and my very close friends.
There was this morning, it was after Christmas, and I was like, did you guys heard about this documentary, Lily Phillips?
She's like this OnlyFans star, South of the 100 guys.
You guys heard about that at all?
Everyone was like, no.
Looking at their phones and scrolling, I'm like, oh, that's true.
I'll just give you, I'm going to tell you a little bit about it.
So I just started talking about it.
No one's engaging with me.
You got to text me and just be like, listen until 40 minutes of this.
That was really isolating.
Yeah.
I was trying really casually.
To be like, I don't have any feelings or thoughts about this, but do you guys?
Do you guys?
Because I would really love to hear that.
Oh, no.
Sweet Jesus.
No one wanted to talk to me about it except for Aliyah, who afterwards was like, do you have thoughts and feelings about it?
Because it seems like you have thoughts and feelings about it.
I feel like you need to talk about this.
Thank you!
She's like, okay, let's...
Let me get inside that ass.
You'll be fine.
You'll be fine.
I'm glad that it isn't your fault either.
No, I don't feel like these people were fucking weird about some pretty regular regular shit.
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Goodbye.
Goodbye.
