Fetishes, Pride, & BDSM 101 Project

Kink Roundtable – Fetishes, Pride, & the BDSM 101 Project

In this episode Ronen, Clay, & Todd talk about fetishes, what Pride means to them, what they’ve learned in their talks with recent guests, and the upcoming BDSM 101 Project. The team discusses differentiating between a kinks & fetishes, learning how far we want to or should take things, as well as what queer community means and how to find a home in it.

Kink Roundtable – Fetishes, Pride, & the BDSM 101 Project Episode Transcript

This is The Subspace Exploration Project.

Join us for a deep dive into kink, non-monogamy, mental and emotional health, gender expression, and community building.

In each episode, we're deconstructing the gender binary, celebrating queer culture, and creating a safe space for sex education, all while learning from authors, educators, mental health professionals, and folks like you and me.

You've got a really cool project going on with Sabersmith.

I have a custom.

This is my first piece of custom leather, and I'm getting a custom hood made from Dani at Sabersmyth.

And yeah, I've never had a custom piece made before, so I was very new to the process.

And this is a really distinct piece, or maybe not distinct, but different from the other head pieces that Dani has made.

Usually he makes like, what is it, a head cage and other full hoods, sort of.

And what we're doing is this executioner style hood.

So it'll kind of go around like this, and we want it to be really modular.

And useful for a lot, an array of different things.

Because if you're going to fork out the money for a nice custom leather hood like that, you want it to do all the things.

Yeah.

Have all the bells and whistles.

Do you mind talking about what's going to be, what are the modular pieces that you have planned for this?

Yeah, so the modular pieces are going to be, so it's going to look like an executioner's hood, executioner hood style.

And it's going to lace up in the back for some really good fit to the skull.

And then optional hooking onto or connecting to a collar piece to go along with it.

So that the hood can be worn with or without the collar.

And the collar will be more of like it's securely on there, it's padlocked, you know, more for play style.

Whereas like the hood can just be for fun, for costumes.

And the other parts of the hood may be wondering, well, what about the mouthpieces and what do the eyes look like?

I'm not super sure yet.

The idea is that there will be the blindfolds and any mouth attachments will be snap-ons.

So that if you didn't want any of them on, they could just snap off and you can put little snap guards on to make it look like that's how it's meant to be.

And it's not like missing a piece or something.

So very, very modular hood, modular eyepieces, ring gaits, bid gags.

Actually, I don't think we can do the bid gag, but we can do...

Yeah, I think that one was too wide, is what he said.

Something really cool and fun is we're going to have a flashlight insert for it.

And then a dildo mount for the other side.

Not for the other side of the flashlight, but just another modification for that.

And I think he was saying that's going to be something like the muzzle that is available on his website, but it'll have the mounting for a ring, you know, you would have for a strap on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think the last piece of modularity to it is the something that I was going to sorely miss with having a mask or a hood on is like, I liked my hair to be able to be grabbed onto and what is there to grab onto on a hood.

So we asked Dani to put a, or I asked Dani to put a handle on the back so that, you know, if there's no hair, there's at least some other handle to grab onto.

Yeah, and it'll be black with, not just like a cheapo black, but like a nice, almost like charcoal black with some brassy accent hardware to it.

Very cool.

Very looking forward to it.

We've been talking about it for a while, and originally, I would have really liked to have this before I went on a road trip just to kind of like sit in it and, you know, have that comfort and attachment to the dynamic that it was commissioned for while I was on my road trip.

But that wasn't able to happen, and I totally understand why it didn't happen.

Well, for one, it's a small shop, and he's the one guy that's doing all the leather pieces.

And this is also like a totally new thing that he's doing with the hood, with my hood, our design together.

And so, yeah, obviously, it's gonna take a little bit to make sure it's all right.

So I have no...

It seems like a concept way out.

It doesn't feel real just yet, but I'm really excited to have it in my hands and on my head.

I've seen some sketches and some of the mock-ups, and we've got some footage of him working on the first prototype and then working on some of the pieces for the stage two prototype.

So we'll be able to look at that.

It's still in development, but it seems like an amazing piece, and I can't wait to see it when it's done.

You've agreed to wear it at some point in some of the content, like we've talked about doing some educational content, collaborating with some folks in the community.

Educational one-on-one content wherein I could be a demo bottom to show how to handle and care for your pet.

That should be really cool.

And you'll most likely be wearing the hood during those scenes where you're bottoming.

That should be awesome.

Big shout out, Dani and Sabersmith.

Yeah, so this is like the hoodless hood, right?

Yeah, the head cage.

This is the one that doesn't have everything enclosed.

But what I was thinking is while you're here, there was the two things I wanted to cover.

One was just I wanted you to check out these panels before I went any further, before I sew them together.

So we were talking about doing the, we were really talking about doing the like smoother side in versus the more suede side.

And I was like 90% sure we landed on suede side.

But I just.

Is this side the suede side?

Okay, that seems good.

I don't know.

I don't think this would be.

So this is the two layers attached now.

So that's why I wanted to check in with you.

So this is the structural leather.

So this is the veg tan leather, and that's the cow leather.

And now it's been attached to the deer skin.

So this is like the two material sandwiched together now.

That's what I thought.

And cut.

So the next step would be to sew these together into the hood shape.

And I'm still doing some experimentation on the best way to do those seams to make them really lay flat and everything, because I just want to like go all out for this one.

And yeah, so just before we go any further, I just wanted you to check that out and make sure that's what's going to...

Yeah, that's fantastic.

That's really soft.

Cool.

And of course, like where, once it gets sewn together, this material is going to start to like...

Form, shape.

Form to its use.

Rather than like a slab.

Exactly.

And that's one of the great things about this particular kind of leather is it does a really good job of like forming to its shape over time.

And you know, and also in addition, like we're able to do things like, like what I showed you, like the masks where we can wet mold them and make them take on characteristics.

And that's something we can even do as we build this out, right?

So, like here's one of our bunny masks, for example, so you can see what we've done is we've used the ability to wet mold this leather.

So like when you get wet, you can mold it around a shape, and then when you dry it out, it holds its shape.

Yeah.

And that's like really particular to veg tan that does that so well.

And here's an example where we've used that to give this those like bunny characteristics.

We've like, like in our Fox one, we'll like mold like big like prominent cheekbones into it.

And here we like do a lot of like trying to make it like pull it into like a very like small little like, I'm a bunny, you know, and versus just like a flat piece of leather.

And so as we build this out, that's one of the things to know is that, you know, as we do things like muzzles and stuff like that, we can work with this ability to make it more more of an animal kind of characteristic if that's what is being that's what's being wanted.

Yeah, you know, in the expression.

So I don't think I'm interested in animal characteristic, but cool.

That's really cool.

Good.

And the other thing is I just want you to check these out and even if you would like to if you want to get I actually realized we could use this as sort of like a fitting harness the way I do like the strap on fitting harness to wear when somebody tries it on they get all the measurements to them.

So if I went ahead and like got this on you today, like it could be I could take this as I'm getting these panels put together and reference these those exactly that makes sense.

So yeah, will you be down to get this on you?

Absolutely.

Cool.

Because I'll take my hat off and we're just going to use we're just going to clean ring bit you can just wear outside your mouth we don't need to it doesn't need to go all the way in.

No, it doesn't need to.

Yeah, he's got work after this so like, maybe putting him in a certain headspace.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't know, service work, service headspace is interchangeable.

Is it?

Well, you know, we just forget to take it off and just wear it to my head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You come from me touching your head.

Yeah, go for it.

These ones should be able to do the last.

Just for fun, you might want to just get one of those too.

Just for fun.

This is pretty fucking comfortable, I'll have to say.

It looks comfortable.

Yeah, this is another one of those ones where I've just like gone through every single point and really labored on the design on it.

Mm-hmm.

You're out.

Oh, where do you catch it?

I to the I'm going to tighten this up on your mouth one notch.

These ones really...

They're up in my eyes.

It's kind of the idea with this one, to be honest.

It's like a half-blinders kind of thing.

Oh yeah, that is disorienting and fun.

I think that should give me what I need.

A bit squishy on this eye.

Yeah, let's get it off.

Cool, it gives me the measurements.

One, two, three, four.

All right, thank you.

And then just one last measurement before we end.

We're here.

What's interesting about it?

It seems like everybody I know has almost the same size head.

Whatever that's about.

All bottoms have the same size head.

Yeah, so do you have any other questions for me while you're here tonight?

Where are we on the Fleshlight insert?

I know last time we talked about that...

I've barely dug into that yet.

I still need to order the bit, and then I'm gonna start playing around with it.

Yeah, basically where I'm at right now in general is the panels, figuring out the construction, get those together, and I've also been really dialed, making sure that I get the right ergonomics and measurements.

I think, have we talked about doing the corseted back?

Yes.

We did, okay, yeah.

So we'll be doing that, and that's gonna really account for a lot of the like...

Adjustability, comfort.

My new head shape kind of comfort.

One of the things I was thinking about too is, when I wanted to run by you, was instead of doing like a tongue.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so instead of doing a tongue, which would be like a piece of leather between the two that's sewn onto one side.

Yeah, like in your shoe.

Yeah, like pretty typical.

Instead of doing that, doing like what you would see on a corset, which is actually like a floating separate piece.

And it just kind of like bumps up that level of looking finished a bit.

So it's basically looks exactly like the back of a corset.

It's just like that, like free floating piece of the laces pass between.

Yeah.

Okay, okay, okay.

And I think that would be like.

Rather than like for the tongue, it's not connected to any of the sides, but it's connected to like the top.

You know what I mean?

It's actually like connecting to the laces, actually.

Okay, so it's got like a pass-through in the middle and just...

The course that I have actually has a tongue on it, so I can't show you that.

Because yeah, that's how the tongue.

No, no, this one doesn't have anything in it.

So there's no, and so this one, I would attach that later, right?

That's something that I can always add later to this.

I think it'll just level up the level of finish.

But I'm going to play around that with that a little bit more.

I might actually still defer back to the tongue.

So I'm still playing, so you know, that's the level that I'm at right now, is figuring out those fine-tuned details.

And then I told Todd I'm just going to stay in contact with you like basically every couple of days, just keep really closely, because that way you can come and record, we're going to do cool stuff.

And so that you'll just both know what's going on with the process.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I also want to be really mindful of touching it on, including you in some of these decisions, too.

This is a fascinating project because when you're taking some design elements from stuff you've done before and working with the client, we could put together something that you don't normally make.

Yeah.

For me, every design is sort of an evolution of past designs.

I mean, this whole process, just really going deep with clients and learning about needs and desires and sensitivities and also working with the same materials, like getting to be really comfortable and familiar with certain materials and certain construction techniques just over time, all the things that you do when somebody comes along and says, they say, I need something that does this for me.

All of those past experiences feed into it.

Very rarely am I starting.

We have some designs that are off-the-shelf designs, but usually when I'm working with somebody as a client, I'm really creating something that's new and very specific to them and their needs.

Like this client had a lot of really specific requests about how things will be attached and how things need to fit and how things need to feel on their head.

And I get some of the sensitivities because I have similar ones.

So I'm just designing around making sure that everything is like really dialed in, around ergonomics and around fit and finish and making sure all the edges are really considered.

I'm designing this back piece right now, and I've got to like really dial in before I finalize this, like how these back panels are going to come together and fit without creating extra bulk on the back of the head.

Or like considering how when it gets tied together, how things will overlap and fold into each other.

So there's just like a lot of little considerations.

And when I get like what's available to me for like a pattern for something like this is usually a very, it's like it's like a halfway there kind of design.

It's like a lot of the considerations haven't been considered.

A lot of the, you know, it'll show me like the basic shape and how it'll be how something like that could be constructed and I can go from there.

But like before it actually becomes a Sabersmith design and what we're doing here is just like going through that, like fine detail process.

What is this material here that you're using?

This is veg tan leather.

So this is leather that is it's reclaimed from from the cattle industry.

And it is most of the leather you see out there, like 95% of it is either chromium tan or letigo leather.

And that leather has undergone a chemical process where it's been soaked in chromium salts or other like heavy salts that break down the fibers of the leather.

And it's what makes it softer.

And it's leather workers like it because you can just sort of cut it and be done with it.

This stuff is VegTan leather where instead of that like four hour process where they do this like intense like like chemical process, this stuff is slow cured in oak tannins for two weeks.

And in that, it cures the leather without softening the fibers.

So this is the kind of leather that it breaks in over time rather than breaking down.

Like if you've got like, you know, like your dad's briefcase, it was made in 1960, that's still like better than it ever was.

There's a good chance that's bench tanned leather.

Because if you take care of this stuff, it just it just only gets better with time.

So that's why we use it, because I want to invest in I want to invest in making products that are that are going to last and like using the best techniques and the best materials.

It allows it allows this stuff to like really get better.

I had a memory from when I was a little kid and I had a baseball mat.

And like I would take that baseball mat and I was like, I'd rub it in with oil and I'd put under my mattress at night and put a band around it with a baseball in it and like do the whole like, like it was like a thing.

It was a labor of love taking care of that baseball mat.

And I have this vivid memory of that mat.

And the funny thing though is I never played baseball.

I couldn't have cared less about baseball.

I just loved that mat.

And what I'm doing here is.

Getting all of the panels shaped out and then I'm going to be lining them, the back of them with deerskin.

And the lining is one of the things that oftentimes separates our work from other makers.

The lining is like, we'll oftentimes take stuff like an animal mask, or if we're doing a hood or something like that, we'll oftentimes line it with deerskin.

And it's like, it's an extra step, but it's what makes the product more than just like a novelty, something that isn't something that just like looks good for a single photo, but something that can be worn, you know, all day, or out at, you know, all night at a club or whatever.

It can actually be something comfortable, something that makes you feel like better in your body, and something that isn't like making you just want to cry and go home.

Of course, if that was the goal, you could certainly...

So one of my phrases that I use a lot in discussions is intentional discomfort.

I want to make sure all of the discomfort in the products is something that is intentional.

Because that's ultimately like what Kink is about, is it's like you're going to all these like different places in your psyche that you don't go to in your day to day, and you are exploring parts of self.

And these things, whether it's by creating a sense of intentional euphoria, like this thing, it feels so comfortable, I just want to wear it forever.

Or the kind of discomfort, the like, oh man, I've been kneeling on these spikes now, and this is like really pushing my boundaries, but I'm learning something new about myself and doing that.

So it's not about creating comfort or discomfort, it's about being intentional about which direction you're going.

At every step of the way.

So yeah, this hood will be really designed for pretty enclosed comfort, but very intense sensory deprivation and hollowing.

Now for this design, there's also going to be a lot of attachments.

There's going to be a blindfold attachment, there's going to be a gag attachment.

But luckily, a lot of those things have already been designed, and the considerations have already been done for how the gag fits on the mouth, and how the blindfold fits, because those are existing products.

What's going to be new on this is how they integrate with the hood.

So it's like really getting the hood itself built around those things, because we like to use things we've already done and integrate them because it makes it modular.

Then you have the muzzle piece that fits on the hood, but then that same muzzle piece should also fit on the single gag strap that we sell, or the locking head cage that we sell.

Because this stuff is, I think when you're buying high quality leather, this stuff is going to last for a long, long time to take care of it.

So it's worth investing in stuff that's going to be multifunctional.

We try to make it so one piece of ours can snap on and then snap off to a different piece.

And so yeah, whether you're like, as you expand this, you can buy one more piece, you create a whole new experience, you know?

Yeah.

Here's the first version of the hood.

This is what we're improving on right now.

And up the back here, where it comes together on the back of the head, is where we're going to have these grommets that you see here.

This is our corset.

And we're going to have a very similar construction on the back of the hood to this corset.

And then, when I talk about the gag bits on the front, you can see, so here's one of our locking head cages.

This totally locks onto your head.

But then this same gag, you snap that out, and it snaps into our single gag system.

It's the same gag.

This can be used in both leather pieces.

And then these are one of the things that we've innovated on.

This is a gag.

And normally what you see is you see one strap that goes just around the back of your neck.

And this is a really awkward point to attach a gag to, because when you turn your head left and right, you look up and down, this distance changes dramatically.

So to measure this and to get the right amount of tight on this is really difficult.

It's always going to be a little bit too tight and hurting your jaw, or a little bit too loose and falling out.

So what we do is this gag strap, instead of attaching it around the back of your neck, it actually locks onto the crown of your head right here.

And you actually don't mess with the buckles each time, so it can't get locked in your hair.

Once you get the sizing right for yourself, you just leave them, and then you just like slide it on.

Well, like hell.

And that point is like, it's rough playproof.

You can roll around, you can rest on that, it's not going to fall off.

And if you really want it to be rough playproof, really want it to not fall off and make sure, then that's when you lock in the gag.

Or, and that's what we're working on right now, this would be the next level up, would be the fully enclosed hood.

Yeah.

So we're going to get those grommets up the back.

And then this is the blindfold.

So the blindfold was actually the first design of Sabersmith.

And so we use flaxseeds and jersey fabric on the back.

And so this really like fills your eye cavities.

And it just totally creates a like a sensory like blackout experience.

It's like you, you are stepping out of this world when you put on this.

And that was like the first big design problem that I went out and set about solving for Sabersmith.

And it's also where we first introduced the headlock system.

And where we really started working with this, with these materials and working with the VEGTAN leather, and like getting to understand like the complexity, like what's possible with this material and like how we can expand it to like a whole line of products.

Kind of amazing.

I'm excited to think, I mean, this is like, so this hood, like I said, it's really like, so this was the, the blindfold was really the first thing that we did.

And then the gag was the next.

And this was like, again, just like the blindfold, like I got these, I got this whole list of things that I needed to solve for.

It needed to have a fully blackout experience.

It needed to be super comfortable.

It needed to work with somebody with a really large nose.

It needed to work with all kinds of different facial shapes.

And it needed to look sexy.

It needed to be something that somebody could feel sexy in while wearing it.

And it needed to be something that could stay on while rolling around.

It needed to be something that wouldn't get, if somebody had curly hair, it wouldn't get stuck in buckles.

Because as a top, that's something I'm really wary of, is getting, like I said, accidental discomfort.

If you're working with somebody and you're putting on something, a blindfold, a gag, and you're putting on a strap, and their hair gets stuck in there, and you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

It totally throws you out of that confident, alter ego space.

So I had those design considerations in mind when I did the blindfold, and that was how the design presented itself.

Once I solved for all those things, the design was obvious.

And so then the gag was the next, and that was the requirements again.

It needed to not always be too tight or too loose.

It needed to not hurt your jaw.

Everything that touched your mouth has to be machine washable.

In this case, it has to have multiple different bits that swap out because in the middle of a scene, you might actually, like, your jaw will get tired.

So being able to swap to a different bit means you can continue the scene longer without having to be either this giant gobstopper bit or you're done.

You can change throughout the scene, and these are really quick to snap out.

And also, it had to serve this ethos of the company, which is this stuff is worth investing in, right?

We're going to invest in the construction of it, you're going to invest in the care of it, and together we're going to create this piece that lasts forever and gets better over time.

And so in that, yeah, this stuff has to work for...

it has to work as part of a modular system.

It really has to.

It has to be something that when you have these pieces, these like this leather piece that like breaks in so perfectly, if this rubber like ever snaps, this piece shouldn't be dead, right?

Then you should be able to swap this out.

Or if we come out with a new like amazing muzzle that like, man, I really want that, all of this piece that you've lovingly broken in over time and it fits to your head and all these things, and it's your piece, you want to be able to use that with your new muzzle and not just have this like all these new straps that are, you know, like coming and going, that kind of by default have to be sort of cheap because it's like a disposable product at that point.

So yeah, like those kinds of considerations, like life cycle of the product, comfort, ergonomics, usage, both from the top perspective and from the bottom perspective.

Like once all of those things are considered and then brought in to like solve for in the design, then it's like I stand back and it's like, okay, this, that's like the right answer for how to make a ball tag.

Yeah, yeah.

So for this design, there's going to be, there's going to be a couple of modular pieces for the, for the mouth.

So we're going with a ball gag and then we have a fleshlight insert.

Right.

Right.

And I suppose, now you mentioned muzzle.

Is that something that would be able to fit just like a, just a plain old muzzle?

And can you have one of those that you can show?

I don't have a muzzle to show.

Do we?

There is one in the window display.

Yeah.

Is it not really removable?

Not really, yeah.

We don't really have a muzzle display.

But that's like, you can just sort of put that on the coming soon list, right?

Like, muzzle, we're going to be doing wire muzzles, like wire cage muzzles, or be doing leather, like, like molded leather muzzles that are like, like wet molded to the shape of a chin, and like kind of really fit onto, like lock onto your chin.

We're going to have like strap-on muzzles, where a strap-on, like a dildo would attach to it.

So, and that's just sort of like the ideas that I have percolating right now that I'm actively like designing right now, but I mean, the longer we do this, the more people come to me and they're like, you know what I need?

Like, somebody came into the shop and they were like, I need two gags that are like face to face, so that both my partners can be a gag at the same time facing each other with their heads locked together.

I'm like, yeah, obviously.

Makes total sense.

Yeah.

So I just I sat down with them and just like sort of prototyped it live, like, like in person with them and made it happen.

That's beautiful.

So yeah, that's sort of like, and I think what we're going to be doing in the next, so we're actually moving out of this shop in a month.

By the end of August, we're actually going to be out of here.

And we're going to be, we're moving the production shop out to our new place.

And then we're going to be doing a lot more like taking our shop on the road.

Because that's what I've discovered works so well about this thing, is about having this shop, is when people come in and I get to sit down with them at my bench and work through problems with them, I'm not just guessing at how people might use this stuff.

I'm really getting access to how somebody is using it and wants to use it.

And it's like integrating in their life.

So rather than just being here, we're going to be really getting out on the road doing pop-up shops around the country and sort of just setting up and letting people come to us and do co-design sessions, do custom pieces for people on site and really be getting out there and collecting the knowledge of what's been figured out.

Making terrible dreams come true.

Beautiful dreams.

Beautiful, terrible dreams.

Yeah.

I mean, this stuff is shadow work.

This stuff is so important to our psyche.

You look at just what's coming out with CPTSD research, and what we're understanding about our psychologies is we have to go to our shadow and address this stuff.

All of these things that are living in us, if we're not exploring them, if we're not having a relationship with them, they're weirdly controlling our lives in ways that we don't want them to.

That's what we're finding out, right?

And so this is a way for me to, in my life, to go deep with myself and with my partners, really understand what's in there, what makes me tick, what makes me excited and scared, and all these things.

And also working with my partners in the same way, like understanding what makes them, like why, why?

And how do we explore that, how we make something safe that has always been scary?

And that's the kind of shadow work that this stuff facilitates.

So it's why it's so important to me to take it so seriously.

Yeah, yeah.

No, because a lot of it...

A lot of it requires, a lot of kink play requires some role play, some level of role play.

And you can pervert some household items to achieve certain things.

But when you really get into it, exploring these things, your mind creates these scenarios.

And you imagine these bizarre items that you can only get from a custom shop.

You can't get anywhere, especially if it's going to be something amazing like leather.

Yeah, I mean, so for example, you can totally make a strap-on harness out of some rope.

You can attach a dildo to the front of your pelvis with some rope, and you have a functional strap-on for a purpose.

But at some point where you're like, okay, my gender dysphoria requires that I have a prosthetic caulk.

I am meant to have a caulk.

And so where is my caulk?

It's not, at some point, tying a dildo onto yourself with rope doesn't cut it.

Yeah.

Do we have our strap on here?

So, this, and then we have a belt, a waist belt.

It's actually in the window right now, the mannequin.

That goes with this.

And together, they form a fully locking on system onto your torso, where you actually have control over the position and the tilt of the cock with your torso.

Something you can learn to use.

It's a prosthetic cock.

It's not just a strap-on.

It's not just a dildo attached to you.

And if you've ever made a rope harness or played with a cheap strap-on, you know how inadequate those can be.

I mean, they can kind of function, but.

Yeah.

Like, it's not going to be reliable.

You're going to be paying more attention to the harness.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Than what you're needing from it, you know.

And at the end of the day, it's about, like, kink is about creating a flow state, right?

And you can't get into a flow state if you're fussing with your gear or if your gear is falling apart and you're trying to like, you're trying not to pay attention to that part that really scraping your armpit or the thing that's really uncomfortable or the thing that is just makes it feel like, makes it feel falling apart, makes it, makes you feel like you're falling apart.

It's like you relate to the things in your scene.

And so this is an opportunity to, to like get that, that, like get to that idealized self place of flow state that, that King is about exploring for a lot of people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so like, let me see here.

Oh, the strap-ons, so we actually, the strap-ons are a good example.

We build every one, each one of these on to the wearer.

Can you hear me, that fitting harness, Jamie?

Okay, this is one of the tools of the trade here.

So, basically, with this fitting harness, somebody with up to an 82-inch.

Waist can fit themselves with how a strap-on should fit on to them.

And like, each one of these adjustment points modifies the fit to your body, because these aren't just like...

It's not just about people having different sizes of body, we have different shapes of bodies.

And so, giving somebody like a size 38 strap-on doesn't really tell you how it's gonna fit on to them.

So, what we do is we have this whole system where you adjust each adjustment point until it fits your shape, and then we take all those numbers, and we build one of these to that shape and size.

And it has adjustments in either direction for variations in body shape over time.

We also, we can refit these if you grow out of them, either losing weight or gaining weight over time.

They're really meant to grow with you and stay with you.

And yeah, so these are built to each user, so you're not just getting like something that is a size that is a universal shape.

You're getting something that is really made to you, which is what makes it a prosthetic, right?

It's pretty amazing.

Well, thank you.

Yeah, this is really, it's important work.

I've had, yeah, really getting to have that moment with people when you've sat down and you've really listened to them about the thing that nobody listens to them about, the thing that everybody brushes off as being too needy or too sensitive.

You've really listened to like, like, okay, I hear you.

And then to make a product that turns a dysphoria into a euphoria, that totally flips that switch that where somebody goes from feeling like, I don't feel good in my self and my body in this moment, in this way, and you create something that flips a switch to where it's like, I feel so fucking good in myself in this moment.

Like I've got this thing and now it's just like, it's totally changed this moment.

Whether it's like the Oliver is a good example, there's a suitcase handle essentially right here in the middle of the chest.

And you've got that and you can just hold onto it and you can ground yourself in that.

And that totally changes a scene for some people if that's the thing you need.

And getting to create that and then having those experiences where you share that with the client and they hug you and there's tears, and there's like, it's like a thing, right?

Like you really get to be there at a point of like, of Kairos of like transformative growth in somebody's life.

Like this piece gets to be part of that.

Yeah.

That must be immensely rewarding.

It's really, really cool.

It was like a calling.

Yeah, yeah, so getting out on the road is going to be big for us, because this is based on, this business is based on meeting people, and looking people in their eye.

I'm talking about real deep stuff.

I mean, this stuff comes from a deep place, right?

This comes from a lot of self-knowledge, self-growth, self-discovery, shadow work.

To really navigate kink intentionally means a lot of self-knowledge.

And so, yeah, exploring that with people and really getting out and talking to a lot of people is going to be, I think, the way that these products are going to keep on evolving.

Because it's not like conversations that spawn this work.

This is like sitting down with people and going to the deep stuff, the trauma and the joy and the pleasure and the relationship with the world.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and my own relationship with my autism has played a big role in that too.

I mean, unmasking and just recognizing it myself, and being able to vocalize to others that, yeah, I'm incredibly light sensitive.

I'm incredibly, like certain things are very distracting for me in certain moments.

There's certain things that I just have to be in a certain flow state for me to be in a certain environment and to operate in a certain way.

And it's like, I like recognizing myself like, yeah, these things are incredibly important to me, you know?

And like, and being able to just like get up and like, when you're like all your friends at a pizza shop and be like, hey, I'm like, this is too sensory overwhelming for me.

I gotta go.

Like being able to do that is like hand in hand for me with being able to say like, okay, this point where I'm really focusing on this specific point of comfort, like to an extreme degree, like that I feel like without recognizing my own sensory sensitivities, I wouldn't even believe that somebody would even care.

But I do believe that somebody cares because I care.

And I am recognizing in myself how much I care.

I care how a snaps snaps together when I'm snapping these things.

We buy the really good snaps for these guys.

We pay four times as much as we need to for these because I love how it snaps together.

And it's worth it for me to have that sensory, that mechanical satisfaction built into these products.

And to me, that says quality, that says it's going to last.

It's just something just visceral that it triggers in me.

And it's again that like turning dysphoria of something poorly made into like euphoria.

And I feel like anybody that's ever watched a like a machining video on YouTube of somebody turning gears or you know, like we're like how it's made and just sat there and we're just like, like if you get it, you get it.

And I'm just one of those people like, like that's the the the euphoria that the mechanical euphoria is is what I chase in these products.

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