Dr Damon Constantinides

Joy & Vulnerability against Fascism w/ Dr Damon Constantinides

In this episode of the Subspace Exploration Project Clay & Todd talk with Dr Damon Constantinides about Joy & Intimacy in the face of Fascism. Damon, a Queer Trans sex therapist doing impactful work with queer and trans individuals and communities in and around Pennsylvania. Damon, Clay, & Todd talk about modern society’s fear of vulnerability and authentic self expression, while it turns out that’s exactly what community is built upon.

Dr Damon’s website: www.DrDamonC.com

Trans Masc Sexual Pleasure Coaching Group: https://www.drdamonc.com/coaching

Trans and Non-binary Consultation Group: https://www.drdamonc.com/tnbsupervisiongroup

Joy & Vulnerability against Fascism W/ Damon Episode transcript

This is The Subspace Exploration Project.

Join us for a deep dive into kink, non-monogamy, mental and emotional health, gender expression, and community building.

In each episode, we're deconstructing the gender binary, celebrating queer culture, and creating a safe space for sex education, all while learning from authors, educators, mental health professionals, and folks like you and me.

In this episode of The Subspace Exploration Project, Clay and Todd talk with Dr.

Damon Constantinides about the joy and intimacy in face of fascism.

Damon, a queer trans sex therapist, has been doing impactful work with queer and trans individuals and communities around Pennsylvania for a little over 10 years.

Damon, Clay, and Todd talk about modern society's fear of vulnerability and authentic self-expression.

Well, it turns out that's exactly what community is built upon.

Let's get into it.

Hi.

Hello.

How are you this morning?

Yeah, this is a funny week to do this, to be honest.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I don't know if we want any of that on this or not.

But I just really need to say it before we just move forward.

You know?

Yeah, please.

Yeah.

So it's.

In a way, I think it is also a good thing to do this week to talk about pleasure and joy and because it's one of the biggest forms of resistance against absolutely.

Yeah.

Fascism and hatred.

Yeah, but I'm doing I'm doing all right.

I think I'm doing pretty good.

Yeah.

In both ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How are you all doing?

As good as we can do out here in Eugene, Oregon.

Okay.

It's not terrifying.

I did.

I was at the grocery store the other day and I saw this young guy walking around with a MAGA hat.

And I was like, okay.

You don't even look old enough to vote, but whatever.

Yeah.

But it's okay.

I know we have community and a pretty active community out here that we can get more involved with especially as times move forward.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Todd and I have been wondering, we have an idea of how to say your last name, Constantinides.

That's close.

It's Constantinides.

Constantinides.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

More.

Okay.

Got it.

Start with Constantinople.

Yeah.

And then complete it the right way.

Yeah.

I was just going to say, yes, this week is very concerning.

So yeah, how to respond.

I'm still figuring that out.

I think I'm in a bit, I'm kind of in shock.

I'm not, well, I'm not surprised, but I'm like bracing myself.

Yeah.

I'm trying to figure out how to move forward, get a sense of what their plans are, how bad it's going to be right out the gate, or if they're going to start stirring things up before he takes office.

Get your documents in order.

Yeah.

I mean, the conversation.

So I work as one of my...

I work as a therapist and a sex therapist.

And so I've been meeting with people all week and just really, I'm like, all right, so how are you going to grieve before you do anything else?

Because it's so tempting to just want to jump to fixing stuff.

But our bodies don't really work like that.

I started the focus of my practice on queer and transsexual pleasure as a reaction to this happening.

But I started it three years ago because that's when I started to really be like, oh, that's what's happening.

This is going to happen.

And so it's kind of an attempt for community for sure, for my community, but also for me to have somewhere to be engaged and believe that we can be experiencing really hard things and still have joy and pleasure.

And I haven't been able to post any of my social media until today.

I'm like, I don't know, guys.

It's like, I'm just going to sit this out for a sec.

And the thing that I posted was like, yeah, how are you going to grieve?

Because we have to go through that part to get to the rest of it.

Yeah.

You can't jump over that.

Even if you really want to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, so you already mentioned that this kind of started for you about three years ago.

That's how you, when you started getting to sex therapy, being a sex therapist.

Well, I've actually been a sex therapist for like 10, 10 or 11 years.

Okay.

Yeah.

Maybe more than that.

But I started doing, part of what I do in my work is I offer these virtual groups for queer folks or for trans.

I have one that's simply for trans mask folks that are about increasing sexual pleasure.

And so that's kind of, I was like, I want my work to be more of this.

And so I've been like leaning into that side of the work.

And so it was three years ago that I was like, oh, I want to do this.

I want to be offering these programs and figuring out how to be connecting with more people than just like my individual clients.

And it's also when I started offering like sex coaching, so that I could work with people outside of Pennsylvania.

Which is where I'm geographically located.

I was born and raised in Maryland, so hi, neighbor.

Yeah, yeah, that's where I grew up too.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I miss the East Coast sometimes.

Sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes.

So you've been a sex therapist for 10 to 11 years, and you started these more talk-based groups for open to more than just your therapy clients to talk about pleasure and pleasure coaching.

Yeah, and specifically the work that I've done with transmasculine people, that's what I started with, and so I've expanded.

But just having a space to talk about sex is so unusual for trans people in general, and for transmasculine people specifically.

And so that felt really lovely to hold that space and to make more of this conversation possible.

I mean, the other thing I think about is like we just, you know, like trans folks specifically often don't have mirrors for what their lives might look like or what their sexuality could look like.

And so getting to be that for each other has been just really joyful.

Yeah, I don't think I started feeling more comfortable about my own sex and pleasure as a transmasc person until I met other transmasc people and talked about sex and had raunchy conversations and got to see how everyone else is doing it.

And it showed me, like, oh, I can do that too.

And then this is like, yeah, it's really, really important to have a mirror of like minded or people who are in the same experience as you.

Yeah.

Because, you know, all the porn and the internet stuff is very cishet white focused.

Like, certain body types.

Yeah, not very good representation.

How am I supposed to get anything out of that?

Right.

And like, like finding porn that's like for queers by queers is hard.

Yes.

Yeah.

I mean, it's out there, but it's hard to find.

It is.

Yeah.

And specifically with transmask folks or trans people that isn't like, exploitative.

And one thing that you did, that you said that I had a question about is that it, yeah, like talking about pleasure or like finding comfort with sex and pleasure is more difficult for transmask people than it is for, well, I guess the opposite would be trans femme people.

Could you say more?

I don't necessarily, yeah, I don't necessarily think that's true, but I do think there are fewer models, right?

Like it's just like the thing that happens because of sexism and how it works in our bigger culture, right, is that transmask people kind of become invisible, especially as like sexual objects.

Like, you know, I think that the opposite that happens to a lot of trans femme people is being hypersexualized, which is its own kind of its own shitty situation, right?

Like that's, but different than for like, I feel like for transmask folks, it's like, just kind of being like their sexuality becoming invisible, or not seen as an object of desire.

Yeah.

And then what that means when you're trying to understand kind of like you named earlier, like trying to understand yourself and understand like your sexuality and who you who you are in the world.

Yeah, there's a lot of feelings of like, my my worth to the cisheteropatriarchy is now gone because I'm transmasc.

So there's no sexuality here.

There's no traditional useful woman in me.

Like, like, what is my purpose in this system?

So that's sad.

That's really sad.

That makes sense, though.

And then, you know, if for folks who, you know, like, depending, like, figuring out how to navigate masculinity and not, and not toxic masculinity is tricky, especially around sex.

Because it shows up so much there, right?

So, like, how do you feel sexual or feel desirable without, like, leaning on, yeah, like, these, like, sexist stereotypes that are kind of what all the mainstream culture has to offer?

So, it's kind of like making up something new.

I was actually going to ask, um, because, like, genuine self-expression of, like, vulnerability and intimacy is very politicized.

Um, the patriarchy doesn't like to see authentic vulnerability.

Yeah.

Um, for anybody.

But especially for marginalized people.

And with marginalized communities, their existence is very politicized.

That genuine self-expression and that intimacy is politicized.

And I have to imagine that at least some of your work focuses on, or at least these group conversations, focus on how to navigate or sidestep the way that expression is politicized and often fetishized.

Um, I guess, to frame that as a question, like, how does that show up?

Like, what are some of the, what, what is some guidance you might give to folks on how to navigate that?

So the way that I, the way that I think about, about it, and so I'm, I'm also like a sex nerd, so I like have a curriculum and I like, it's just always been who I am, and this has been really a moment where I get to use those skills and that knowledge.

But I really ask people to, there's a couple of things, like one of them is asking people to start with like, identifying an erotic lineage, and including like really leaning into ancestors and transistors.

So moving outside of this idea that I am like this individual person floating in the world and nobody understands me, to being like part of something much bigger where actually everyone's had every feeling you've had before, not everyone.

Other people have had every feeling you've had before, and like, they also can be in support of you in this moment, right, so that you can be like connected to something larger.

And so I feel like when I teach my sexual pleasure workshops, that's like one, there's a couple like kind of basic things that I start with, and that's like one of the starting places is really trying to help people feel not just connected to each other, which I think is really valuable, but to like this bigger legacy that we are a part of, right, that we're like literally here because of these other people who did these things so that we can be here and live in this, you know, in our full authenticity today.

And so like, I think there's just so much like value there in being connected.

And so I feel like that's one of the ways.

And then, what was the other thing I was going to say?

So the lineage.

Oh, and then the other thing is like really challenging like the sexual models that we have available to us.

And like this idea like really like shifting away from like goal-oriented sex to pleasure-oriented sex, which just has so much more space for so many things, right?

Like it has space where like, you know, for like kink, where that gets to be sex, right?

I guess, you know, and kink, I feel like for trans folks is often a way to feel connected to their body in a way that they can't in like the more narrow, cishet definition of like what sex is, right?

Like vanilla sex.

And so really trying to like expand, you know, I use the sexual pleasure, the real sexual pleasure as a model to help people like expand their understanding of their own sexual desire.

And that's like outside of the systems that you're talking about, Todd, right?

Like it's like, you know, like influenced by them, but like kind of trying to do it a different way.

And like what happens and like when it's like in a group of like 12 people and this is what's normal, right?

You also get to have some of that mirroring back of like, oh, okay, other people are thinking about it this way.

And that helps me understand myself more.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like maybe sometimes our view might be a bit skewed because, you know, we're often looking at like the overlap between the queer, trans, non-binary communities, especially when neurodivergence is present.

But we see a lot of kink in BDSM as the way that makes sense for people to connect and be intimate.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And somewhere in there is an urge to subvert.

And I think that's kind of what you're pointing to is like subvert these tropes, these standards.

But also, and I think it's very important, is to decolonize kink in BDSM too, because modern kink in BDSM is very much built on colonialism and the suffering that it intends for the queer and trans, non-binary, all of the other marginalized communities.

I've been having a lot of thoughts about the kink old guard, and just trying to chip away at old guard traditions and to be old guard, to adhere to the old guard traditions.

Some of it falls into a trap of the cis-heteronormative white supremacist colonial mindset that kink for me is about breaking away from that.

And, you know, I don't know, I...

It's curious the way...

And I do know of like, there are some queer kinky people that are old guard-y, but they're not bringing in all of the Ick that comes from the normative, you know, patriarchal, cishetero...

You know, the words, the cisheteropatriarchal perspective of it all.

And...

Because I think there's value in a lot of things that people want to do with their kink.

And I don't think there is a place in kink to shame anybody for their subversive pleasures.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there is sometimes concerning behavior that I wouldn't want to see in me.

I wouldn't want that to be an expectation in my kink community.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I just sometimes I will get lost in a thought and feeling and go far away.

Yeah.

Well, also recently, we've come across receipts of some people Old Guard, Darlene Sishat, that they are playing with kind of fascist tropes, fascist iconography, and they're not exactly subverting it.

They're claiming that they're subverting it, but that's not the way it's coming off.

And they're doing it very publicly, and it's very concerning.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, these people are very, they're pretty famous and well known in kink education circles.

And like, we're not exactly sure what to do with it.

Nazi fetishes are concerning.

I mean, I just think they think about how power works in every system, right?

Like even in subversive, marginalized communities, it still always is like that.

Like the people who are like closest to, who have to like white, cis, straight, they always have like the most power, even when you break it down.

Yeah.

Stop giving it to them.

Stop giving them the platform then.

And there's like a, like, this researcher, Eliason, has like a model to shift.

Like I remember like learning about it, because it is like stop giving them the platform, and it's like systemic, right?

Like it's like a phenomenon that like, which is like, I feel like what's so hard about, like, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to change shit, but it's like what's so hard, like changing systemic shit is like so big.

Yeah.

I think in some ways, it's like why I, like this work that I've been doing is kind of, it's kind of like really asking people to like start that work in internally with the hope that it will have an external impact on our community and just like in general.

But yeah, it's like big shit to try to change.

You've worked up a bit with Indigenous communities.

Can you tell us a bit about that work and the experience of these, of like how these communities intersect?

That isn't part of my wheelhouse.

No.

I haven't worked specifically with Indigenous communities.

Oh, I think I might have misread something on your website.

Okay.

Well, it did actually get me thinking though, because I did grow up in and around the Indigenous community.

Yeah.

And I do see some parallels in, parallels in the way that genuine self-expression is muted and how it's either dissuaded or it's fetishized.

Yeah.

You know, it's the same for the queer and trans communities.

It's kind of an either or.

This is the way the society at large sees you.

It's either shut up, go away, or you were held up as this thing.

Absolutely.

I think so much of the work that I do is influenced by the work of indigenous people.

Because there are, I mean, it's just like, you know, like we've talked about, like, decolonizing kink, right?

Like, colonization is, it doesn't fit with the work of healing, right?

Like you can't be like doing healing work, right?

And so, you know, when I, when I think about that, I think about like really the deep gratitude that I have for these other models of being, and how to, like, you know, how to make, how to, like, work from other models without, like, taking, taking without giving, right?

Like, like, how to not, like, exploit these ideas.

And so, I think a lot about, like, my position as a white person, as a masked person, as a Greek American living, you know, on Lenape land.

And, like, what, like, how am I, how can I do work that isn't replicating so much of the harm that my ancestors have participated in?

Yeah.

So it's something that I think a lot about, and that really influences my work.

And I also think a lot about, you know, like, the frames that we have for gender in, like, mainstream white Western culture are, like, so limiting.

And just even knowing that there are, like, other ways of being and make, like, holding that as a truth all the time feels, like, deeply important to me.

Yeah, you have to, there is a fuck ton of sidestepping, um, the ideas that politics and Western systems are labeling us and identifying us for our use and what we're supposed to be.

And so there's, there's a ton of dismantling you have to do to get people to reach, um, reach their pleasure and understand how to play with that and identify that and move towards it.

Um, it's really, really difficult to shuffle off that, that dead skin of what the world puts on you to be.

And I do think that really gets in the way of people accessing their pleasure, like all the time.

I know I've certainly fell in, in discovering my, my transness and then trying to navigate sexuality and like further gender identity and expression.

I've, I've certainly fallen victim to, like, toxic masculinity and it's always, it's, it's certainly, I find it funny when the, the women in my life, the queer women are like, big talk coming from you.

When I, when I'm like, when I fall into some toxic masculinity or say something like jokingly misogynist, and they're like, hey, let's take a step back for a second.

And you have to, you're like, oh shit, how did I, how did I get there?

How?

It's just like a, it's a, you have all these different reflexes.

Even if you tear down one layer, there's like another one that takes its place just in case that one gets damaged.

You know, it's, it's crazy.

Yeah, it is.

That is, those are the common ways that we perform that gender.

So it's, it's not difficult to default to it if you're not consciously approaching it.

Yeah.

You know, it's always the worst ways first.

You know?

Yeah.

And I just think about all, like, it is, like, really, I think it can be, like, really important, well, definitely important, but also joyful work to be kind of constantly dismantling that, because when we are able to do that, there's, like, so much more available, right?

And, like, you know, I even think, Todd, about what you said earlier about how like, like, intimate, I don't know if this, I don't know if this is your exact words, like, how intimate connection isn't really accepted, right?

In mainstream culture, like, that vulnerability is, is threatening, right?

And, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm, like, thinking about how, yeah, when we're able to, like, notice, and that's so much of what toxic masculinity does, is, like, reduces vulnerability, right?

And so, like, when we're really able to, like, go there, like, what opens up?

It's really amazing.

Well, you know, that, I mean, that's what I see constantly, like, as I'm deconstructing the toxic parts of my masculine expression, and I look at those, especially, like, online, you can see it very, very clearly that...

Yeah...

.

those that embrace the toxic ways of expressing masculinity, they are terrified of people that are comfortable expressing vulnerability and connection.

Absolutely.

They don't know what to do with it.

That's why the joy and pleasure is so important in the face of what's happening right now.

Be terrifying.

Be so vulnerable and yourself that you are terrifying these people.

Become ungovernable.

Yeah.

It does make me think about, and I'm curious what you two think about this, is how do we continue to hold those spaces when things do feel hard?

Hold spaces for vulnerability?

For joy and pleasure, right?

What is that practice?

And I suspect it is a practice, as most useful things are.

Yeah.

But that's what it, I feel like that's something I've really been thinking about the last three days.

Well, maybe it's because of the way that I skew in my predilections, but Yeah.

really, it looks like community to me.

Yeah.

You know?

Absolutely.

Find people that I care about and trust, and we can create a space of vulnerability and joy.

Yeah.

I think that's at least at the heart of it, if not the foundation of it.

I am predicting a lot there, because we have our friends who can more easily come back to their joy and connection with people in the face of so much terror and uncertainty.

And we have people that get so shut down and scared of what might happen or discouraged to even try.

Yeah.

I tend to be one of those people that can easily come back to the joy.

And I find it difficult to think about how can I grab my people who are terrified and shut down, and like force them back into like, and we're going to have a dance party, actually.

So yes, it's on fire, but what can we do about it right now other than be joyful?

And of course, there are...

To hand that mechanister of gasoline and be like, let's celebrate.

Let's go set some shit on fire.

Yeah.

I think that's where I come back to like, right, like some people need more time to grieve than others.

Yeah.

Or some people's grief looks different, right?

Like some people can grieve at the dance party.

You know?

Yeah.

And that's, I think, a really amazing superpower to have, right?

Like that's awesome.

And some people can't, right?

Like they, that's not, you know, and helping.

I think there is, I agree with you, like there is a part of like pulling people who need that, and then also like a part of like, yeah, meeting people where they are.

I think it can also, because a lot of time it overlaps that the people who can, and this is just in my experience, a lot of times people who can easily get back to joy need more guidance on how to like act in their, not how to behave, but how to act, actively work against shit that's happening in their community and to get involved.

Because sometimes all of that is like.

Actively working against, and I would also argue that joy and pleasure is actively working against the fascism around us.

But to get active with your community is also another thing.

And so if we have each other that are, I'm pulling you towards joy and you're pulling me towards like community action, like that, that's very powerful.

Yeah.

I was thinking about the balance, but even more than that, having that tension, I think is really valuable.

Yeah.

People that you can be comfortable in conflict with are very important.

Yeah.

It's not about not having conflict.

Right.

Lee Harrington was recently talking about how conflict can be a gift.

Like, it creates that tension.

And this is something that I've learned about myself lately.

Like, I really appreciate the opportunity that forced growth gives me.

Like, no, it's time to confront this shit now.

Let's do it together.

Yes, we might not talk for a week or a day or whatever it requires, but there's a reason why we butted heads.

Now let's clear the air and find some common ground.

And at least that's what I gleaned from what Lee was saying, because I was looking at some recent conflicts that we've had with people.

Which aren't ready to be resolved, but it had me reflecting and seeing that it's very valuable.

And yeah, that tension between those that are overwhelmed and those that say, fuck it, finding how to meet in the middle, is where community is built, you know?

Where safer communities are built.

Yeah, and we need both of those pieces, like all of the pieces.

Yeah.

I think about that too.

Individuals are so important.

So, individuality, and bringing everybody together.

Because not everybody can do everything.

Sometimes we gotta have people to guide us and hold our hand and help us to know what to do.

Channel the anger, channel the joy, channel our fear, grieve together.

Well, I want to thank you for joining us.

I really needed this.

I think this actually helps after these last couple of days.

This helps center myself.

I don't know about you two, but this was a little bit of calm and reflection amidst the storm that is brewing.

We will reach out to you in the future, and I think we'd love to have you on.

Check in with you and see how things are going, because I think we're going to see a lot of changes in the communities in the coming months and years, and if for no other reason than to make sure that you're doing okay.

We will check back in with you.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, and thanks for having me and for holding this space, right?

Like I do think that that is part of, like we just need to keep doing that, right?

Like making spaces in our hours.

Totally.

And that's so important.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

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