Deep Tissue Impact w/ Ever

Deep Tissue Impact w/ Ever

In this week’s episode Clay, Ronen, & Todd introduce Ever, a new friend and contributor to the Subspace Exploration Project. They discuss neurodivergence, their path of exploring gender expression, kink vs vanilla connections, being a top, switch, bottom and what they have learned by occupying these roles, their appreciation for deep impact, and being both kinky and queer in more rural areas.

Deep Tissue Impact w/ Ever Episode Transcript

This is the Subspace Exploration Project.

Join us for a deep dive into kink, non-monogamy, mental and emotional health, gender expression, and community building.

In each episode, we're deconstructing the gender binary, celebrating queer culture, and creating a safe space for sex education, all while learning from authors, educators, mental health professionals, and folks like you and me.

In this week's episode, Clay, Ronen, and Todd introduce Ever, a new friend and contributor to the Subspace Exploration Project.

They discuss neurodivergence, their path of exploring gender expression, kink versus vanilla connections, being a top, switch, bottom, and what they've learned by occupying these roles.

Their appreciation for deep impact and being both kinky and queer in more rural areas.

Let's jump into it.

We are doing a little bit of a, well, it's somewhere between an interview and a roundtable chat with our new friend Ever.

I'm Todd.

I'm Clay.

I'm Ronen.

And I'm Ever.

Yeah, this is Ever.

Yeah.

Hi.

Yeah, this is pretty much just a get to know Ever chat.

So how about you introduce yourself, tell us how you identify.

I am non-binary, 25.

I use they, them pronouns primarily.

She, her pronouns here and there as well.

And identity is a tough one.

Just because it fluctuates fairly often.

But I feel like gender fluid is the term I would use to describe my gender and then sexual orientation is just generally queer.

I do typically lean sapphic with romantic partners, but sexual partners, there's no real preference.

And yeah, I am a switch.

I primarily am in a sub and bottom role, but I do occasionally enjoy a dom or top role as well.

Know that.

How did you discover kink in BDSM?

Yeah, I discovered kink in BDSM, I think about five or six years ago.

Really just kind of threw myself into it head first, didn't know what I was doing, took a step back, learned a lot more, and got back into things.

And yeah, I think in the past, like year and a half or two years, I've really been focusing more on building community and connecting with other people in the kink community.

For example, we've recently connected with Ever, and Ever has become part of our community.

And it's hopefully moving here sometime soon, or will be moving here sometime soon, not hopefully.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll be moving in September.

Yeah.

So we actually met, it was on field, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm kind of at this point, kind of taking a very community based approach, like trying to find kinky queer people just to connect with.

I'm not like super into building like, anything beyond like that core foundation of friendship and like commonality, like find neurodivergent queer people that have these same common interests.

And, yeah, and we connected on field, and I'm like, hey, let's just hang out and, you know, see if you appreciate the vibes that me and my people create.

And you're like, hell yes.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, there isn't a ton of community out where I'm at.

And so it's been really good to find people to connect with over, you know, kink and queerness and neurodivergence, because, yeah, there just isn't a whole lot of that out here.

Can I ask where you're at?

Yeah, I'm in Central Oregon.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm in like Bent.

So it's just pretty dry out there.

It's pretty dry.

It's pretty conservative.

Oh, no.

All of those things, nice.

Even finding like queer community can be difficult out here sometimes.

So I think like moving to the valley is going to be a lot better.

You kind of you've encountered the same thing I was in the years before moving up back up here to the Eugene Springfield area, which was anybody worth spending time with for the most part lived in Eugene Springfield.

And so you had to be willing to travel pretty much.

Yeah.

Luckily, you're coming over here looking for housing to move for school and whatnot.

And, you know, so it's relatively convenient for you.

But I imagine, well, also you live in a pretty rural area.

So there's you have to drive anywhere to do anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's there's not a lot out here.

There's a lot of fields, a lot of cows skiing, but I don't do that.

But, yeah, I travel to Eugene pretty, pretty often.

I've been traveling to Eugene, like at least two or three times a month for the past few months.

So what role does Kink and BDSM play in your life at this point?

At this point, I feel like it's kind of taking a little bit of a bigger role than it has in the past for me.

I think in the past, it's been something that I've indulged in here and there.

But the past year, year and a half or so, it's really become a lot more integral in how I look for relationships or potential partners, and just play partners in general.

Yeah, sorry.

But yeah, I think it's been a really, really great outlet for me recently.

Do you find yourself looking for different types of people now that you've advanced yourself a little bit or learn more?

Yeah, definitely.

I found that it's more difficult for me to have interest in vanilla partners.

Right.

Just because it's something that's become such a big part of my life.

I don't know, it kind of feels like taking a step back in a way.

Right.

How do you make room for more vanilla in the life where you're trying to cultivate more?

What's the opposite of vanilla here in this lingo?

We do have an opposite.

Kinky, I guess.

But we're going for the metaphor of vanilla.

Your rocky road, your chocolate therapy, your Ben and Jerry's.

I don't even remember what I was playing with.

But yeah, it's hard to like, when you're seeking out new connections, it's hard to seek out and continue with the connections that are just more vanilla, because it's like, this has nothing to do with what I'm trying to make more room for, you know?

Yeah, it doesn't offer you that.

Yeah.

Especially when it's so like new and you're like, oh, I'm loving this.

Like what I can't yap about the shit to the vanilla people in my life.

I have to keep it in.

Yeah, right.

People aren't going to appreciate it.

When I'm out in public or I have to consider.

Being normal in public.

And I think about the ways I might have to censor myself.

I kind of get hung up on like, why is that abnormal?

Like, why exactly will people freak out when they see or hear this stuff?

And especially considering that, to some degree, most people partake in some of these activities, like even the power dynamic, like the dom-sub thing, like how the patriarchy is, like some weird, twisted, distorted, very unhealthy version of a power dynamic.

It's a fantasy version of it, and very extremely dysfunctional, but people are familiar with a lot of these different things to some extent.

And it's just they want to pretend to be normal.

And anybody who's proudly being kinky in a healthy way, they need to be shut down by the normies, you know?

Yeah, that was the company that I work for had a booth at Pride.

And I went to run it and like, you know, represent the queer leadership in the company.

And I had just been out at Pride like walking around, you know, just having a good time before I had my shift at the booth.

And I had dressed up, I was flagging at Pride, and had to just sit there and think for a second and go, wait, hold on, they're going to be taking pictures of this booth.

It's going to be, you know, something that other people could see in the company.

And it just was really odd that that was something that I had to like, you know, censor about myself.

And I think a lot of vanilla people are, or so-called vanilla people are engaging in subversive sex acts and like enacting, doing something that is like, acting out a scenario in which the discomfort is better this time because it's within my power and I'm choosing it, you know, like for all the people that, you know, love to be, like I'm thinking about the men that love for women to absolutely humiliate them and make them feel like shit like that.

I don't know.

And then there are some men that just won't say that, I don't know, oh, I engage in subversive sex or I have, you know, non-vanilla tendencies.

That wouldn't be something that they would bring up, but they like, even if they are acting upon it, they are, they're seeking it out in their porn and like, you know, it's their guilty pleasure.

And I don't know.

Yeah.

A lot of people want this stuff, but are afraid to engage with it or...

They don't realize how common it actually is.

Yeah.

Or they don't know how.

Do neurodivergence and your gender expression play a big role in how you prefer or need to connect with others?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that neurodivergence definitely plays a big role in how I need to connect with others.

Like, I don't know.

It's difficult to create connections with people that aren't neurodivergent, I think.

Just because, you know, not everyone understands, like, oh, yeah, the big light needs to be off.

But, you know, I think it's really essential for me to have people that understand, you know, sensory issues and, you know, memory issues and that kind of thing that I primarily struggle with with mine.

And I found, you know, if somebody can't understand that, it's a lot harder for me to develop, like, trust and be vulnerable with them.

Because I think, like, yeah, being able to be vulnerable with people like that and just not mask is a huge part of being comfortable with them, like, in a scene for me.

And when it comes to gender, I think that's another huge thing for me.

Like, I for a while was strictly tea for tea, because, you know, I think there's a lot of, like, fetishization that goes on from cis people sometimes.

I've ended up with a lot of, like, cis het guys that are questioning their sexual orientation and are like, oh, you'd be a fun experiment.

And so I think, you know, like, finding other queer people to connect with, at the very least, is, like, essential to feeling safe, too, for me.

Yeah, we leave the Chodes alone.

Yeah.

The kink in BDSM that you do, are there things that you've learned from it, like, skills that you're taking away from it, that the vanilla people in your life don't seem to have the same kind of grasp on, or, like, having a harder time understanding?

I honestly think, like, consent in boundaries.

Like, yeah, like, that's a big one.

I think, like, yeah, people who are actually genuinely invested in kink and learning how to do it safely have just across the board, even in non-kink scenarios, been, you know, a lot better about respecting boundaries and communication, too.

Especially when it comes to, like, needs and that kind of thing.

I think a lot of people are scared to talk about their needs.

Especially, like, you know, people that are more vanilla.

It can be scary.

And I think, like, leaning into this has helped me become a lot more confident in figuring out my needs and being able to express those to other people.

Totally.

Sorry if that didn't answer your question at all.

No, that answers it.

Okay.

That definitely answered it.

Cool.

Like, we've talked about before, it's your, when you start learning about kink, you start learning about yourself and you really have to look inward and be like, you know, what am I okay with really?

Yeah.

And to create those boundaries, because if you've never had that before, you know, or it's just never been, you've never been in a community that was, you know, healthy with their boundaries.

Yeah.

Fostered an environment where boundaries gets in and are respected.

Yeah.

So, yeah, not having that and then having it is like, you do feel vulnerable, but at the same time, it's a good thing.

There's a comfort there.

Totally.

Yeah.

That may not have had before.

When I think of kinky people, I think most of the time, I also thinking neurodivergent people.

Like, I mean, there are some kinky people that aren't neurodivergent.

And I've met some of them, I've chatted with them on the apps.

But I also find like immediately in negotiating with them, it's clear that they're not neurodivergent and they don't understand the need to communicate things on that.

You know, to constantly work out the details, irregularly renegotiate where we're going, what our limits are, what we're comfortable with.

Yeah.

And when I encounter those folks, I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not.

If you don't understand the value of this communication, then I'm not playing, you know?

Yeah.

And frankly, I'm not willing to teach someone that I'm trying to play with how to do communication.

Like, yeah, we can be in community, sure, but we're not fucking playing together.

You like you're going to have to experience that and learn it and then show me what you're capable of after learning about it.

Whereas, if someone is new and they do understand the value of that communication, there is a foundation there that I can work with.

I'm willing to teach them some things, not that I'm super experienced at all of it, but I'm willing to teach them what I know and explore what I don't.

You know?

Yeah.

You need to have the patience for that.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I didn't know.

I'm working on it.

Well, it's not your job to teach someone, necessarily.

Like, if you just meet someone and they're just great, and you just, you know, just flows down that way.

That's one thing, but sure.

Yeah.

But I don't want it to feel like pulling teeth, man.

I'm not a dentist.

You must want me to be.

No, I mean, from a trainer, trainee perspective, you know, like in a dynamic, it can be a lot of fun to.

Yes, in a dynamic.

Yeah.

But there still has to be communication skills high enough to engage in a dynamic with that person first, to then teach them more trainer, trainee skills and that willingness and humiliation to fuck up or not know something and to learn new things.

And an understanding of why this kind of communication is so important.

Yeah.

And then we're cooking.

In fact, when we were first talking with Ever, we were talking about potentially doing some scenes, and we actually invited them over to just sit in and witness how we play sometimes.

They were like, I dig it.

It's like a trial run to see how are you guys going about your communication?

Absolutely.

It was really cool to see the level of communication, planning, trust, just to be able to see the whole process, even having the notes for the scene in advance, and just seeing all the time and care that went into that.

It was really cool to get to vet play partners like that.

And before I had engaged in many dynamics, but before I engaged in dynamics, I had seen some of the five-star doms that are planning shit and they have notes and stuff.

And so I thought that that was like, you know, you don't really get that.

You can get some good communication on like some planning, but I didn't think it was that possible for someone to enthusiastically craft notes for the scene that they want to have with you.

And so just like knowing that it has that level of attention is extremely comforting.

And that being said, I don't necessarily think it's like a necessary for the communication and the trust in the planning to work.

Totally depends on your dynamic and who we all are as people.

We happen to do notes.

And so you sat in on a couple scenes, and then we decided that your first scene would be a great opportunity for Clay to co-top, to top.

And that gave everybody a lot of new experiences.

And I think that was really cool.

That was so much fun.

I didn't know how much I would fucking love it until I did it.

And like I remember doing the promo shoots for our little side project, our PDSM 101 side project, and we're doing promo shoots.

And I had put my boot on Ever's back, and truly something shifted within me.

Me too.

The confidence.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, like from that moment on, I was like, oh, fuck yeah, I'm excited.

I got to top you too.

And I did it.

It was a hell of a lot of fun.

And the creativity and the confidence that was rushing through me was fantastic.

Yeah, it was really fun.

And I was happy to finally give you your scene.

And as my first co-topping experience and your first being co-topped.

Yeah, which I think is a great place to segue into the experiences of being Switch and what motivates you to take on either role.

You've been a Dom in the past.

Why did you decide to shut that down for a while?

And what is your experience, Ben, being almost exclusively a bottom recently?

In the dynamic that I was in, I wasn't receiving much care.

I think the relationship that I was in when I was in a Dom role just generally wasn't the healthiest.

And after that, I just decided, you know, maybe I take a little break.

I take a little breather.

I experiment with something new.

Try out this other side of myself that I haven't really been letting myself explore very much.

And, yeah, I think, you know, because in a Dom role, I am very much a pleasure Dom, very much more of a service top sort of role, for sure.

And getting to explore being of service in a bottom role was just like an entire new world opened up.

I was like, wow, this is great.

This is amazing.

What are you learning or what have you taken away from so far in your experiences as a top and a bottom?

And what are the similarities, commonalities that maybe some people might not see?

Like some of the similarities between like topping and bottoming for me has just been, I don't know, like I think in that giving my partner pleasure thing for me and how I approach those things.

You know, I always like to be giving my partner my attention in some way, whether that's like, you know, in a service role or, you know, in that dom role where I'm just focused on their pleasure.

And I think that that like just translates really well from one role to another.

Will you say more about what kind of submissive you like to be?

What kind of submissive role you take on?

You like to be of service, clearly.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love to be of service.

I really enjoy roles where I am given some sort of challenge, whether that's like taking impact play or edging or those kinds of things.

And I like being able to achieve that goal or overcome the obstacle.

And I think like pet play has been something that I've really enjoyed that allows me to, you know, I like the challenge and reward side of it.

And so that gives me a fun way to just kind of explore like that headspace where the only thing I really need to work on or like focus on is doing a good job.

And yeah, I think that's kind of the majority of of how I approach like sub roles is just that, you know, eager to please, eager to obey sort of thing.

I think the fun thing about that in a sub role is that like you can make, you can make the goalpost wherever you want to be.

So like what you can do a good job at whatever you decide is going to be the thing that you're going to do a good job at.

Or like you get to decide what the good job is.

If you're, yeah, I don't know.

Some people might think that like choking, choking on the strap might be, you know, a failure of a job.

But perhaps, perhaps that's good.

Perhaps, you know, you're the winner when you do do that.

I struggle to think of another example, like.

Something on your mind, Clay?

No.

No, I'm not thinking of sucking slap.

I mean, shut up.

Like when I think about the role I occupy now as a top is, I like, yes, it's nice.

I kind of care about the bottom's pleasure.

It is a goal, but I also want to do what I want.

And I feel like it can be sometimes I mean more sadist than I do like a pleasure top.

I want to see like what's possible from like what are all the mean things that I can possibly think of that you would allow me to do and thank me for it afterwards.

Because I do a lot of censoring myself in my day-to-day life of like, be chill.

You can't just have whatever you want immediately when you want it.

So it gives me a chance to be a brat as a top.

Yeah, either role I'm occupying is definitely a bratty role.

Perhaps one day I'll get to a role that isn't a brat, but for now, I wear the crown.

I find it really difficult to be a brat.

It's like because I just want to do a good job at whatever is happening.

Like I just have that like need to please.

I don't want to tease.

I don't want to cause conflict.

I'm like, no, I'm the best.

I'm listening so good right now.

Yeah.

So I think it's really difficult for me to be like to give pushback at all in any way.

Not to say that I don't stand up for myself when I need to, but.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

There's still those boundaries that we were talking about.

Yes.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I'm the same way.

I really, really like to please.

And I've actually had some people be like, you can't be agreeable all the time.

And I'm like, but I can.

I totally can.

Watch.

Following the rules feels so good.

It does.

Not what my mother taught me.

I mean, I'd say I'm definitely a bratty bottom, bratty submissive.

I like to challenge myself.

And I like the praise, but I also, I feel like I probably get off more on the degradation of it, or being told off, or punished, I guess.

But yeah, I like to follow a rule.

I like there to be rules.

I like guardrails, signposts.

Will I read them?

Not always.

But it is fantastic to have directions to refer to, should I want them.

And as long as I'm not disobeying real boundaries, there can be fun boundaries that I can push and cross and not follow the rules, and it's not necessarily a genuine like, hey man, why didn't you respect me just then?

There are times when it's like, okay, you can't be doing that.

But a lot of times, the boundary pushing that I'm doing is like, they were made to, like pushed, yes, sure, but mostly to, something to push back on you a little bit so that you truly don't go outside of that.

Well, and you're always coming from a place of solid trust.

And whether as a bottom or a top, and I think, like even though I'm really excited to see, to witness you exploring your role as a top, I think you're always aware of that trust and how to maintain it, you know?

And it's definitely, it's certainly different as a top, but there's just as much trust needed, but...

And some of this exploration will actually be captured in this upcoming project that Ever has agreed to be part of as a photographer, cinematographer, and maybe even on screen, who knows.

Perhaps as a demo.

No pressure, no pressure.

No pressure, yeah.

Yeah.

The little bit of photography that I've been able to do with you guys so far, that shoot was fantastic.

It was a really, really fun thing to be a part of.

And I feel like I got some pretty solid shots that I'm really proud of too.

Yeah, it was just a great experience overall.

Now, if I can bring the right lens next time.

Yeah, having to position yourself halfway across the house because you had a zoom lens, that made it difficult, especially in such a small apartment.

If you're bringing your zoom lens to film, to take pictures inside, it really should be called the cuck lens.

Because you're going to be standing from a far.

I was so, so far away.

Just like...

I have been putting this banana inside of itself.

That's really gay.

And see, if I could do this to a person, I would love to.

This is the kind of bullshit where I'm like, let me fidget on you for a while.

Just be fine with it.

Be my fidget toy.

I'm going to rock back and forth on your face.

No, I was talking to Todd about after the scene that we had, I was like, hold on, wait a second.

I think I like deep, thuddy, impact play, like punching because it calms my nervous system, like a hug can when you're over stimulated.

And it just connected the dots on the drive home afterwards.

I was like, oh wait, that's autism.

It totally is.

Yeah.

Sensations seeking.

Visibly, like from the outside, looking in, it looks terrible, but it's like, it's really intimate, therapeutic.

It's like a deep tissue impact kind of thing.

And it's kind of powerful.

It's a lot of fun.

It's one of the most relaxing things.

I feel so warm and rosy afterwards.

Yeah.

It's the good feels.

Yeah, I've been enjoying the punching too.

It's like, it really is a deep tissue massage.

Yeah.

Figuring out the most delicious places to be punched, still a work in progress.

Definitely, the more meatier part of the thighs.

Don't flex them.

Don't flex the muscle that you're going to hit.

I've definitely fucked myself over in the times where I'm getting hit and I start to flex because it hurts.

And then the next hits after that are even worse.

And I'm like, bro, relax.

Relax while getting punched.

Breathing.

I guess.

I imagine there are a couple of different ways to do it.

They could count down for you or you could be made to count down.

So you're like, whatever works to allow you to relax or you work your way up in intensity or you just take it.

Yeah.

That's what I've been doing.

Until I curl up, like shrivel up and roll away.

Like a potato bug.

Sometimes it just needs a breather.

But yeah, that's, yeah, like I'm relatively new to more intense impact.

And so like something I'm still working out is pacing.

And I kind of, I'm like, I took a step back and I'm like, it only makes sense to just, to really work out how pacing works for myself and any partner.

To use my hands, I think, is the best way to figure that out.

Because that's how I can really feel, you know, if it's working, you know, and feel their response.

And, you know, slapping actually kind of fucks up my hands.

Like, it's split open my hand really bad, even with gloves on, for like a week.

And I'm like, you know what, we're just going to do closed fist.

I was apprehensive for a good reason, to, you know, do a lot of closed fist.

But once I got into it, I found myself loving it.

And you all seem to be really into it.

It's like something else.

And it's hard to explain to people that aren't into impact, like why, but it's very powerful and really effective for making that connection, you know.

Well, I guess we should probably wrap this up.

That was a good, nice chat.

Great chance to get to know you and let you and Ronen meet each other.

Yeah, and so next week, we are actually going to the Sabresmith teams abode, and we're going to do a viewing of some of the content they make for the just in this collaborative effort for the BDSM 101 project.

So we're all going to meet there next week, and so that will be a chance to hang out face to face in a little bit more relaxed setting, do community.

Break bread.

Yes.

But I'm really excited for that.

Oh, and we're going to talk to professional Femdom and author Tammy Jo Eckhart again.

Can we do?

She's a blast.

She's neurodivergent, queer, poly, and immensely knowledgeable, and she might be a contributor to the BDSM 101 project.

I'll be there.

Well, it was lovely talking to you, and we are excited to hang out with you next week.

It was nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you, too.

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