Kyssandra Myrind

Kink and Art Therapy

In this episode Ronen, Clay, & Todd sit down with Kyssandra Myrind to talk art, kink, mental health, and healing. Kyssandra is a multifaceted life adventurer specializing in identity development, facilitating creative expression, and planting the seeds of love along the way. In our talk Kyss explains how she got started in Kink, Polyamory, and how that led to teaching various Art Therapy classes in the Eugene area.

Fetlife: Kyss_n_Tell https://fetlife.com/users/8454073

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Kyssandra 1 Episode Transcript

Welcome to The Subspace Exploration Project, a personal journey into king non-monogamy, mental and emotional health, gender expression, and building community.

My name is Kyssandra Myrind, that is my take in name.

My name is Stephanie, because my daughter said the trouble was inappropriate.

And seven years ago, I started out on creating my new life.

And now the next step is, I'll be teaching coping through the arts classes.

And I'm going to go into coaching people to help them figure out their identity.

And a lot of my learning space has been in the poly community and the kink community.

That is informed huge amounts of things that I will teach others, and they will not even realize where they came from.

Because sometimes people can't hear that.

To be able to hear the lessons, sometimes they need to not know the source.

And can you tell us about what your introduction to polyamory and kink and where they might have overlapped?

Where did they overlap?

Actually, it all happened at the same time.

So I met a woman at a comedy open mic where I was reading a chapter a week of my open, of my erotic novel as I was writing it.

And so she was like, had to figure out who this person was.

And about six months later, we ended up connecting.

And she and I, basically, I entered into a poly pod with her and her husband and her three children and my child, one of my children came and joined us and my father came and joined us.

It was a lot of love around there.

And in that process, she opened the doors to the poly community as well as the kink community.

And so it was one of those 18 month relationships where you get all kinds of wonderful and not so wonderful things out of it, but I'll take the good.

So that's where I came into how I was introduced to it.

My partner that I'm still with now is coming on six years.

I met him at a poly function that he was coming home to hopefully get together with my girlfriend, you know.

Hey, but she got busy and I made sure that he was taken care of down the road.

It didn't happen.

Well, you know, she wasn't there and he had to leave.

And I'm like, well, we're all poly.

So I just kind of thought I'd kiss him, check out the merchandise before it left.

Yeah.

And he turned out he was looking for a rope bunny.

And I'm like, my BDSM test says that I would be a rope bunny, but I don't know what a rope bunny is.

We figured that out real quick.

And I was the girlfriend that was never meant to be, basically, because I just kept showing up every Thursday for Rope Lab.

Here we are six years later.

So you do rope lab in the community.

That's at the Bat Cave?

Yeah.

Used to be at different homes amongst the community.

And so it was like his home was one of them, but it was just like this great...

I had no idea what it was.

I hadn't tried any of these things.

I've been cloistered away for a quarter century.

And I hadn't ever dated before I met my ex-husband.

I was 16 when I met him.

So I knew nothing other than what he had introduced me to, which the thing that's been fascinating really about the King community particularly is like one of the things that occurred when I met my partner is like, my little came out.

Now, I was not aware I had a little.

So little Kyssandra is the 12-year-old bad babysitter.

She's going to show up, she's going to eat all your ice cream, she's going to say things in front of your children you don't want them to hear.

She's going to feed them chocolate right before bed.

And by the way, bedtime is 10 minutes before you show up.

Yeah.

I gave that description one day to a friend, and one of my friends from my old life was there.

And he's like, that is you.

And my new friend says, how do you know?

He says, she was my babysitter.

What we didn't realize at that time, little Kyssandra was just one of many a personality that I have.

She is not just a king shade.

But because in the kink community, it is safe to be a little, she could come out and reveal.

I didn't know, my therapist didn't know.

None of us knew that I had multiple personalities.

So it was a beautiful way for her to have a safe place to come out.

When we were talking to Jessica Fern, we talked a lot about parts work and the different parts of ourselves that can be satisfied within poly relationships.

Our kink relationships also give us a container to bring parts of ourselves that don't get to come out in most other situations.

Regardless of whether or not you have DID or...

Well, internal family systems is a valid modality, absolutely.

That person we are when we walk in the door of our office building, and the person we are when we go home to our lovers, we all have those pieces and parts and shades or whatever you want to call them.

Mine are just a little more defined in defiance than some.

I'm a very extreme person, and so being around other people who do extreme things and are extreme people, at least in that space, was liberating.

I didn't have to not be something, and it was okay if I was more extreme than some in some things.

It's all right.

And the other thing that was really, I found interesting, is that for me, to be submissive, after a quarter century of submission, whether you are submissive or not to start with, that is going to be a comfort zone.

It's something that you require to feel balanced.

And having access to the King community means I can negotiate who, when, what, when it starts, when it ends.

It can be once a week, and I can get that need met in a situation where I'm safe.

I don't end up in a relationship that feeds that need that's damaging, because I can get that need met in a more structured, safe way.

Yeah, absolutely.

I definitely, I actually, I feel like, I wish there was a way to introduce it more openly with people coming out of domestic violence situations.

Because I do feel that opportunities within the King community, if done well and well vetted, can be, could save people from going into relationships just like they got out of the thought that it was different.

Or, you know, to figure out how to get that need met in a space that's within their dictation of what they want it to be.

And no real harm is ever done.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You know, it's like bruises heal.

The soul is a different thing.

I think there are two really important things going on there in Kink and BDSM.

There's the activities between people, and then there's communication.

So even if people aren't introduced to the activities that are under that umbrella, they could definitely benefit from the communication styles that come with what occurs in Kink and BDSM.

Absolutely.

And that's something I've run into, because when I got in the Kink community, I jumped right into learning it best I could.

I was at the club talking to some of my girlfriends that are bartenders and such, and they were in their mid-20s.

And at that time, I talked about my sex life, like guys talk about sex life, in the locker room.

And it's a double standard, I know.

I don't necessarily appreciate it, but we may enjoy that as well.

You know, they like reality.

Because everyone else is telling a bunch of fluff.

And so I had this one of my friends, she's like 24, she's like, wait a minute, you can tell him you want this, you don't want that, and you want more of that, I want that.

I'm like, you should have that.

You need to negotiate.

I said, y'all get out there, you get drunk, you get on the dance floor, you're bumping up against each other, you go home with somebody, he doesn't tell you what he wants, you don't tell him what your triggers are, he can't figure out why he's just in trouble in the morning, you can't figure out why y'all got hurt, y'all dumb.

You know, you need to know what you're doing.

Because you can have a very satisfying, happy sex life and love life, and it can even be separate if you stop and are willing to communicate.

But communication is really hard for people, me included.

You know, my partner and I communicate a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think there are absolutely people out there that think that they are doing the communication that they need and they're still confused why things aren't working out the way that they want to work out.

And they don't understand what they're doing wrong.

And that's really tough when it's not as, when it's not as simple as they're just doing a bad job.

They don't realize that they think they're trying.

They're trying their best and they can't get it.

And they're like, I guess I just deserve this.

This is just how people are.

And that's really sad.

Yeah, and even someone who is in practicing with communicating and doing those kinds of things, especially with more intense or extreme kink or BDSM scenes, I still struggle sometimes to find exactly what it is that I need or am looking for.

Because I don't have, I don't know how to articulate the goal of how I'm trying to feel afterwards or during or before.

And that's one of the things I've been working with on my own things too.

Like identifying a communication.

When does communication get hard for me?

When I'm worried about what the other person's response is going to be, and now I've identified, oh, that's when I'm becoming codependent.

Yeah.

Like, oh, okay, that's the trigger sign.

Now I know.

I can back it up and I'm like, okay, the reality is, it's going to hurt either time.

It doesn't matter now or later.

Might as well jump.

But then it also makes me wonder like, is that that space that we're talking about, is that when people are worried more about trying to set up the outside world to fit them, rather than looking inside and saying, this is, you know, this is the thing I'm searching for.

And one of the things I've been working on recently is when encountering something, instead of saying, do I like it or do I don't like it?

Do I feel expansive or do I feel constricted?

Because sometimes my trauma will make things that are feel constricting, feel right.

And so by changing the way I'm judging internally how I feel about an activity, it's like, well, this feels good, but I'm feeling constricted.

Is that what I want?

Sometimes it is.

That's valid too.

A lot of it, I think when we're having troubles externally, I think that turning around and looking internally might be our best trick and is like absolutely the scariest thing on this goddamn planet.

No thanks.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm like, excuse me, cover the mirror, turn it away.

No, I don't get that.

But imagine how much more fun existence would be if we took delight and joy to turn inward and find the things that we wanted and did them.

In a weird way, like the DID for me has allowed that for me.

So as someone who was trained to be a people pleaser and trained to be more interested in everyone else's needs than my own.

But now I've got all these people inside me who are people in and of their own right who have needs.

And I found that we can self validate better.

We can take care of each other better.

We can consider ourselves better.

And sometimes it's easier to self love having a target, I guess.

It's like, you know, I'm going to buy, you know, it's like I'm not just going to buy this dress because I have this empty hole.

But I know Kyss is really going to love wearing it for her daddy.

And that kind of thing is like, it's now self care.

It's now acknowledgement of who I am.

But it's also like, you know, Kyss, we're going to have to get rid of one of the dresses at home because we're working on that too.

She's like, okay.

Yeah.

So I can identify with a lot of what you've talked about.

I also have identity disorder and I have different parts that I were unaware of until recently.

You would think people would find out sooner in their life, but it doesn't really happen that way.

Also taught to be a people pleaser, very Christian household that I grew up in.

And also went through the abuse.

He snatched me up when I was 19 years old.

Didn't know anything.

Yeah.

And so it's just recently in my life, I'm 40 now coming through being a prisoner.

And it's kind of like being a feral animal.

When you let someone out of a cage, they either immediately run or they may even crawl back in the cage for safety.

And I was kind of just frozen outside of the cage.

It's like, what do I do now?

Do I run?

Do I, you know, do I crawl back in?

Definitely not crawling back in.

We're not doing that.

It's scary out in the world.

It is valid to want to crawl back in.

It's what's familiar.

Yes, yeah, familiarity, yeah.

But like you said, taking that and realizing that maybe that familiarity that you built with that is because you do need something that's in that, but you need it in a safe space, where like you said, you can control the factors, the variables, you know, like who, what, when, where, and how much, and when to stop.

So I really appreciate everything you're saying.

Thank you.

I'm glad that you're helping others and sharing.

It's definitely, that's you folks that are in that position, because that's where I was.

I mean, I walked away from my life.

I walked away from two of our three children that were on the property.

I left them with him.

I knew that was safer for them.

As, you know, as hard as it was, I made that choice because I felt my daughters would have a better, would be better taken care of in that situation.

My mental health wasn't great.

I didn't know what was going to happen.

He had financial, financially could take care of them.

I left him with the house and my dad stayed there.

And I just, you know, my one daughter, I knew she was fragile to a degree.

I wasn't sure how much so.

But I knew that taking her from her tiny little school of 80 students K through 12 and sticking her in North Eugene was irresponsible away from all of her tight little knit group friends.

And my other daughter was daddy's little girl.

I'm like, she would have hated me for taking her away from him.

And they didn't talk to me for nearly a year.

My dad barely talked to me because he couldn't understand anybody getting a divorce because he and my mom, they were like, they were so in love.

If we had not stayed living with my father, he would have died within a year.

So it was just, he just couldn't understand either.

It's really difficult when there are kids involved.

Like, regardless of what your experience was in that situation, the experience for the kids was vastly different.

And you might want to assume that the kids are going to be able to identify the hard time that you might have been going through.

But no, you kept that in most of the time.

They didn't see any of that.

And as they shouldn't, they shouldn't be privy to that information.

But when it comes time to go your own direction, it can be very complicated for the kids.

And it sucks to have to step away and maybe leave them not the best place, but it is the more stable place.

And about a year later when they did come back to talking to me, I told them honestly, I was going to leave within a year, one way or another.

The way I left, I'm here for you.

Because the other option I wouldn't have been.

And I knew it was...

And just like six months ago, I realized, I'm like, I wonder if this is how people that have had cancer diagnosis that go into remission feel.

So I realized all of a sudden, these are like bonus years.

These are years I wasn't supposed to have.

Because you left at the right time to help yourself, rather than going out, what, kicking and screaming?

Like messier than you wanted it to be?

Not even, no.

I mean, I would have been dead.

I would have, I was that close.

And I really didn't realize until six months ago how close I was.

Because in a way, it was a death.

Like, absolutely.

I walked away from my entire life.

My kids barely spoke to me.

And when they did, they didn't like me because their dad was telling them trash.

And all I could do is love on them and do the best I could and try to take care of myself and get as strong as I could.

And when they came back into my life, like, yeah, you know, my one daughter said at one point when she moved in with me, she said, Mom, it's like there's no room for me in your life.

I'm like, sweetheart, I didn't know if you'd ever come back to me.

I had to build a life for myself because I knew there's no way that you're not going to fit in.

We just got to figure out where it is.

You know, but it's irresponsible.

You know, I, I've seen friends like trying to build a life with a space in their hell for their children.

And there's something inherently ghostlike about that.

And very like, it's not like you don't like I ever forgot about my children.

But I know I needed to be as strong as I could be.

And having a hole in the center of me waiting for them to fill it wasn't going to be the person that was strong for them.

At the end of the day, you're an adult who supports them in their life.

And you got to be the best adult you can be in order to be there for that kid.

Whether or not you have a designated space set up for them.

That is something that can easily be worked out.

The fact that I'm a strong person who's here for you, I'm ready for it.

That's meaningful.

I feel really fortunate.

My experiences that I've had, I don't cut corners with my kids.

They know what I do.

They don't mean I don't know details.

If they ask details, I tell them.

Because I'm not ashamed of who I am.

I'm not ashamed of what I've done, what I do.

I've had my kids come to me and ask me questions that a lot of parents don't get.

Because my kids know that if I haven't done it, chances are I know someone who has.

You know, and there's no shame in asking the question.

My parents are a bit like that to an extent.

If you two haven't done it, I'm sure you know somebody who has.

Give me the stories.

You know, it's like, I think, okay, how much do I have to censor myself?

We can cut anything you want.

I got to tell you a funny story.

It's not even about Kig.

But so this is how open my my son actually asked me at one point.

He's like, you know, because he and I are a lot alike.

And he's like, Mom, I was thinking about trying cocaine.

You know, what do you think?

You know, what do you think?

I'm like, honey, I really don't know.

What makes you think I was?

I would know.

And he says, well, so and so says that you do cocaine.

I'm like, no, I don't.

I said, well, I did do it once.

He goes, oh, yeah, how do you like I said, well, I sucked it off a guy's cock.

Didn't do a lot for me.

But it was like, like, this is honesty and truth.

It's just too funny.

That's at least sad.

I think there have been times where people have asked me questions like that, and I give them the extra details.

And they're like, you could have just you didn't even have to lie.

You just didn't.

You just didn't have to say that part.

I'm like, well, you're going to think twice before you ask me a question.

And so you really want that answer.

How much information do you want me to lay the scene out?

One of the doms that I played with at one time, that was one of his things.

It's like he gets everybody.

He did it with his parents.

So you'd be like, they'd ask him a question.

Do you really want me to tell you?

Because I will be honest with you, but you need to ask yourself, do you want the answer to that question?

It was interesting because one of the first times that I played with him, he asked, like we were discussing, negotiating the beginning of it.

And he'd asked like, how far I was willing to go.

And I knew that he didn't have a lot of time for aftercare.

We had another appointment later that night.

So I'm like, you know, I'm like, nothing too severe.

So it was just like, just going in for rough sex was my thought.

And then I was pretty in the scene at the time, and he brings out a violet wand.

And I didn't want to play electric.

And girlfriend here did some really bad sub math and thought, I can do this.

I can take care of myself.

You've done this too.

I can get you.

So we, you know, so we play and we have great time.

I go, I leave two hours later.

I drop like a hot rock.

I'm sitting at the club and I call him.

He's, he's pissed.

He is pissed.

Now bear in mind, I did not realize he should not have renegotiated mid scene.

Yeah.

And that's a thing.

That's his mistake.

Yeah.

And he's, you know, he's fairly senior in the, in the scene.

So, but I met him at the clubs.

Sometimes those senior in the scene type of guys are just like, they're very set in their ways and what they know about it.

And I've been doing it like this for so long.

So I can't possibly have any fault.

So, you know, he was, he was very upset with me and he informed me that we would be discussing it in two days.

And we would see if I would go on probation or not at all.

So, and the biggest issue was I had not told him what my aftercare needs were because I didn't expect to need aftercare.

I wasn't expecting to do anything severe.

I can handle heavy sex.

That's not a problem.

So we met up.

I gave him a note card with my aftercare needs.

And I said, well, sir, there's one thing.

Like, it's not really a surprise.

I realize now that I sub dropped because you technically were part of my sex vacation and you were my seventh partner in five days, third one heavy kinky.

I was going to sub drop eventually.

And here again, don't appreciate the double standards because if I had been a dude, I'd gotten a high five and a drink out of that deal.

I just got a look that told me that even in a community of extreme people that do extreme things, apparently girlfriends a little extreme at times.

I guess you bought me a drink of that later.

But it was a very good example of might not be knowing enough and being responsible enough in my part as a sub.

And I definitely feel strongly about that, about people like getting on the cross, not telling their dom or top that they've had a rough day week or had a drink before they got there or like the things that would let you know that shit might go down.

And then when they have a rough scene and they come back and say, and say, oh, there was this or this was wrong or bad.

And like, wait a minute, that's not just on the top.

Where was that information before we started?

Exactly.

And I don't...

If you're not bringing it as a blame, it's like, okay, this went poorly because this interaction, da-da-da-da.

But usually, when it bothers me, and I've seen some doms that you can't really hurt by it because they didn't mean to do anything bad.

You know?

And it doesn't feel fair.

It's like, subsides be responsible.

Or not get on the fucking cross.

Yeah.

Or at least have a very clearly negotiated container for you to be irresponsible.

If that's what you need.

Well, I guess that's because when I was in the polypod, and I would see my partner once a week, and I would come home.

So the husband asked me once, he goes, he's trying to get to know me.

He's like, what is it about going there every Thursday?

Because you come up, you're like, you can handle anything, you're calm, everything's cool for like, he's like, what is it?

I said, well, I can be irresponsible.

And he's like, you mean like knocking over glasses of water and starting fires?

Nah, that's just clumsy.

And I'm like, no.

It's like, if it's a Saturday night, and I'm there on Sunday morning, I know we have tofu scramble.

For breakfast?

For breakfast, yeah.

Right.

And I know the mushrooms go in tofu scramble.

I know where the mushrooms are.

I know the proper cutting board to use.

Do I get any of those things out?

No, because it is not my job.

And when he brings them out and sets them out and asks me to cut the mushrooms, I will ask him how big to cut them.

Because right then, it is not my job to know.

And that is peace.

To someone who's had to be ultra responsible all of their life, to every fucking everybody, and always the one that gets called on the carpet for everything.

That is peace.

The freedom to not have to think about what decision you might have to make, and you just wait for someone to tell you what it is.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, it's not my job to make the decisions right then.

Any decision I was supposed to make was made in the negotiations.

I kind of do stuff like that.

I work in a kitchen, so sometimes, sometimes I'm like, well, how do you want these done?

And then they get mad at me for asking, and I'm like, okay, do you want it fucked up or not?

Like, do you want me to make this decision?

Because I will.

Yeah, it's like, do you want it your way or my way?

At this time, I would like to know what you want from me, please.

Yeah.

Are you the boss or am I the boss?

Because I can be the boss.

Yeah, you can be the boss.

We're not making any of this today, girl.

It's pancakes all day.

Oh, yes.

You know, there's been so much that I've gotten that's so valuable from Kink that I use all the time.

And like, and I'm figuring out because there's just, there's some people that if you were to tell them where you got the knowledge, they wouldn't be able to hear the lesson.

Yes.

And that's okay, because they just don't want to open that book.

They're afraid of what else they'll find.

They're really afraid they're going to find themselves in it.

But that's okay.

Well, that's another topic.

But like one of the biggest ones that I've learned is about aftercare.

And you know, when I was brought into the scene, that was requirement.

I always was to have aftercare.

You know, I, and for me, aftercare, I could be on the cross and my one dog would take a rolling pin to me.

And it was just pound on me with a rolling pin.

And I would just giggle and dance.

I was just happy as a clam.

But in the aftercare, I would get some chocolate, I get some water, I get cuddles, and I could talk and process, and I could cry.

And until I hit the King community, I didn't know how to cry without becoming suicidal.

There was just no way to do it.

I didn't know how to do it.

It was tears, sobbing, suicidality.

It's just straight line, no stop.

Did you, if I can interrupt, were you like trying hard not to get into a crying state very often?

Or was it just like it would happen a lot, and so you had to feel like that a lot?

I avoided a lot.

I did a lot of avoiding.

And when I also never was alone.

I wouldn't allow myself to be alone.

Four hours alone in my apartment, I was suicidal.

It's much easier to cry when you're alone.

Exactly.

When you're out with people, they'll try to cheer you up.

And then, of course, you got to keep a face on.

And honestly, it saved my life for a good little while.

But learning to cry, you know, and the thing is, is in aftercare, that was a safe place.

I had somebody to cuddle me, somebody to listen to me.

It made sense that I was crying.

It was expected.

You're going to process emotions.

That's what part of the deal was.

And so it was this beautiful gift.

And then, like two years ago, I started dancing burlesque.

And I definitely believe in the dark and the light of everything.

I mean, this whole planet is a dichotomy.

And I come to understand aftercare to be like the thing that lets, you know, the high chemistry of the light, like, recalibrate down and not have too much darkness.

Kind of like, you know, if it's a pendulum is going to swing, it doesn't have to swing as far if you have your aftercare.

Yeah, it's going to stop it midway.

Yeah, it's like soften that little swing.

And so when I start dancing burlesque, you know, bear in mind, I turned 50 in September.

So I was like 47 going on 48.

I was not in great shape.

I used to weigh 365 pounds if seven, eight years ago.

So like my body's carried a lot of weight.

I had three kids.

I was not exercising as much as I should have been.

And just a whole night and lots of reasons why my body was not really ready for this.

And I did it anyway.

And what that would end up with is Sunday night, I would dance and Monday was a wash because I couldn't do anything.

Yeah.

And I was hurting and I couldn't hardly get out of bed.

And on the second Monday, because I was dancing weekly at that point, I realized I got depressed and I started getting kind of suicidal.

And I'm like, this is sub drop.

This is sub drop.

I'm so excited.

And I had all that great energy on stage.

This is sub drop.

I know what to do with this.

So the next week comes along.

And when I came home, I made sure I had food and hydration.

I made sure I soaked my feet.

I did all the things.

And the next morning I had a good breakfast ready that I could just eat.

And like, within a couple of weeks, it was fine.

And it was like, but it was that lesson that I got from Kink, as far as, you know, after care is the thing you do when you have that big high chemistry.

And even just like, was it two weeks ago?

Like, we got to Kink Fest.

So I went up to Kink Fest.

Yeah, that was like two weeks ago.

And my partner took me to Kink Fest.

And then I stayed an extra night to be with one of my other loves of my life.

And when I came back, I was on the train.

And I realized, I am feeling so good.

I'm going to have a sub drop tomorrow.

And so I started putting it in place, like what I was going to do for, I had like a two day aftercare plan to just kind of ease me off of this really beautiful high that was so amazing.

And not end up in the ditch by Wednesday.

And it worked, it worked really well.

I told my partner, I told my best friend, I'm like, hey, this is, I just realized this.

So this is what I like you guys to watch for just in case.

And it worked really well.

I think a lot of people experience, it reminded me of like, when people who go to big music festivals or raves and stuff.

And I don't know if it's just because they're doing MDMA or whatever.

Chemistry is the same.

Right.

Doesn't matter.

But like, it's the same idea.

You have an explosively wild, awesome time where everything is great and high and euphoric, and then it's done, it's over, and you drop.

You can call that drop whatever you want.

Yeah, I think if people had these kinds of experiences or had these tools to be able to look at themselves and their experiences, their needs, and how they get those needs met in whatever container, I think it would be immensely helpful because, like in the vanilla world, with the sense of permanence or this obligation of, whatever it is, it's like a relationship container or something that's supposed to last forever or whatever.

And if you take it out of that, and you're looking at it moment by moment, connection by connection, it takes some of the illusory aspects out of it, and you get to be more clear in your analysis of your own behavior, your own emotions, and how other people might respond to you, and vice versa, you know.

And yeah, I mean, like we were talking with Jessica Byrne, the author of PolySecure, and she was talking about it would be really helpful if someone would write a book about communication tools and, you know, the self-analysis tools used in kink, because it is immensely helpful.

And it's a lot more honest than in most anything else.

It's interesting.

It makes me think, like, I don't have one at this time, but one of the things that I've been curious about are relationship contracts.

Because I thought about it in, like, in my past, and I imagine many people might think of contracts being, like, finite things that are endings.

But in my mind, it would be something like, you know, it would basically be a negotiation begun that we would agree to renegotiate each year.

Yeah.

And because the thing is, is we don't stay the same person.

No.

And yet we expect people to stay the same.

And if we're not talking about those things, and we're just assuming that it's going to last forever, but the assumption is we don't have to talk about that, that just seems short-sighted in general.

Like, Ed, to some degree, like, I feel like with my partner, Brian, that's in town, like, I see him basically once a week.

But the reality is, that is not a guarantee.

That's a gift.

Like, I put it in my calendar every week, yes, but I don't assume that it's going to happen because...

Not owed it?

Yeah.

It's not part of your relationship contract, that that's something that's owed to you.

Yeah.

Like, we're not...

It's just kind of...

We keep coming together with our every week, so I guess we're in a relationship.

I mean, it's just...

It grew very organically, I guess, is the best way of saying it.

So in the fact that it grew like a hedge rather than like, oh, here's a sticker contract, and you're done, and apparently we're together.

Like, that's not how it happened.

But I think there's a lot of value in that, is that it can be seen as the gift.

And the fact that he doesn't pay my rent, he doesn't provide my insurance, and that's the way I like it.

Because when I show up on my lover's doorstep, I want them to know that I'm there because I love them.

Not because, yeah, it's that time of the month and I need my rent paid.

And because of my trauma background, I think that if I did find someone that wanted to put me in that situation of paying for everything for me, I think that I would be blowing that up very quickly.

No matter how much I love that person because that's just not a safe feeling for me.

I feel a lot of fear towards, fear and hesitation towards a relationship where there is so much dependence on each other.

And so I've often run away as soon as things start to become like, well, I depend on you for...

I mean, at first it was like emotional stability and I was like, I can't be there for you and all of your...

all that is happening and going on for a person.

But yeah, so I can kind of understand that as soon as things start to become like, I'm depending on you for things, I'm gonna blow that up because...

Well, I think it's a slippery slope, really.

It really is.

It starts off as one thing and it starts simple, but then all of our idiocy and creosities build.

We start getting overly concerned with how someone's going to respond to something, like you were saying earlier.

Everybody has the potential to be codependent.

There's drawbacks to not confronting that, and digging in finding what causes that.

But that doesn't mean you need to go and get married, and go all in and see how bad it's going to get to break it apart.

Well, I was in the poly pod, and that ended very poorly.

And then I wasn't planning to have people live with me.

It was my dad and I were going to live together in this house.

My kids were going to live with me.

Well, discovered that my kids and I can't live together at that point.

Okay, so they go their ways.

And right before quarantine happened, that October, November, I met my girlfriend that ended up living there.

And then between October, November time and COVID quarantine, what we went into quarantine with was, well, my therapist then began to call my halfway house for heathens.

I still think you've had one of those.

No, I haven't.

But the idea of it is, sometimes I feel like I've collected a few friends that I'm like, come here.

That sounds kind of like that.

And we were all had such high levels of trauma and PTSD.

And I don't really know that we could have lived with anybody else, honestly, during that time.

You were the perfect folks to be living with each other.

In a weird way, because even though, we could cut each other grace, because we understood.

And I didn't understand mine, but they helped me enormously in figuring out what was happening.

In fact, during quarantines, when I found out about the DID, I had no idea before that.

But during my halfway house for heathens, I have to tease my therapist about that every so often.

So we had the resident pregnant stripper, who was my girlfriend's friend, and her boyfriend, the Ativan, because he kept her calm.

And then we had the Amazon transgender beauty, who was my girlfriend, who was my college submissive.

We had the Viking, who was my male lover that lived there.

And then my father, who was kind of like captive lawyer, he never knew what he was going to walk out on.

And somebody voted me den mother.

I'm not quite certain how that happened at all.

But that's who we went into quarantine with.

And everybody except the stripper and boyfriend stayed until the end of quarantine.

But unfortunately, we were also codependent by the time quarantine ended, that everything blew up.

Like we just, nothing could stay.

It was like a pressure cooker.

Exactly.

I mean, it got through the safe points.

And we had one of us, like a number of them had been homeless for quite some time.

One of them was able to, the stripper did end up having the baby safely, and she was able to get into treatment afterwards.

And then one of them stopped drinking.

Another one was able to catch up on like 10 years worth of sleep.

Like it was amazing.

Like we really did have great things happen.

I was able to figure out about the DID during that timeframe.

The other thing I really found out afterwards was, oh, that's how my side of the co-dependency works.

Because like I went into the polypod, having come out of a relationship going, I need to be needed.

It's like putting a neon sign on your head saying, I'm co-dependent, come pick me.

But then with the Heathens, it's like, I took care of everyone too well.

I took away their buy-in, their responsibility.

Even though at one point, money was a problem for folks, not making them pay rent wasn't a good option because people pay their rent, and that's how they feel they are doing what they're supposed to do.

And if they don't do that, eventually they feel like they owe you so much, they can't stay.

And it was a very interesting awareness for me.

Yeah, and the situation that that then puts you in is an uncomfortable one.

But I'm really hoping that if ever I live with somebody again, they won't have to hate me to leave me.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm gonna have to put a contract on that.

Because then we could just amicably part, you know?

But the good news is most of those people I have come back around and been able to have relationships with again.

So that's been a really lovely thing.

It's nice when even if, you know, shit blows apart with somebody, you can make your way back to each other and repair.

It was interesting.

And like my partner, although in quarantine he didn't come over because my father was with us.

And so we were very, very careful of like the in and out and everything.

You know, and we just kind of, you know, but we just stayed in touch and we were still, you know, in communication and everything.

And we figured things out when we came back out of it.

But I feel really, really fortunate to have such a long relationship with him.

I feel like it's because it isn't based on anything that society says you're supposed to do.

None of it.

Like we see each other once a week.

We have been seeing each other for six years once a week.

And that's okay.

Sometimes we'll meet and have a hug or have tea in the midweek.

But that's okay.

I mean, we don't have to be each other's back pockets.

He can have his life.

I can have my life.

My mental health and my physical body take a lot of time and care.

And I, because we don't live together, which there's no way we could.

I'm too much of a mess and he's too minute.

It would be this, you know, I can focus on getting well, which is what been my focus.

And I also don't fall into the trap of expecting him to do it on the daily either.

Of trying to, you know, help me constantly.

Yeah, that can be tiring.

Just like our communication styles are completely different.

The way our brains work are completely different.

And we've both been able to grow so much just learning from each other, just figuring out how to navigate.

One step at a time.

So I'm going to tell a story on him.

It's a really sweet story though.

So Polly and Kink all together.

So I have two great loves in my life.

I have my partner who lives in town.

I see him once a week.

And I have another person that is Viking.

So we've been together at different times, but we've never been in relationship.

But we also have been through many a lifetime together, shall we say.

So I've just, we both need to heal.

Too much, you know, there's more healing to be done before we can be together.

And I don't know that we'll ever be able to get be together in this lifetime, other than what little bits of time we get.

So when it came to going to Kinkfest, when in November, when my partner decided to get, register me, I wasn't planning to go.

I already decided I didn't have the money.

He decided he was going to take me.

Oh, okay.

So we set that up.

And then the next week when we got together, he was talking to me about it.

He goes, you know, Kinkfest is up in Portland.

And I'm aware that the Viking moved up to Portland recently.

You know, so I'm aware that he's also in the Kink community.

And if he would like to spend time with you, even significant amounts of time with you, I would be okay with that.

And I broke down in tears.

I never felt so loved in all my life as to have him so invested in my happiness that he would allow for that time split and be the one to mention it.

And in going up there, I did get to see the Viking on the night after Kinkfest.

So I did all of Kinkfest with my partner, and I got to see the Viking that night.

And then I came back on the train.

And there was a beautiful flip at the end, though, because a week or two before Kinkfest, my partner calls me and he's like, well, you know, the cookie sprite, we have lunch for everybody, has moved back into the state and is up in Portland.

And it sounds like they might be available on Saturday to see me.

And he's like, you know, how do you feel about that?

And like, well, it sounds like I'm flying solo Kinkfest on Saturday night.

He's like, are you okay with that?

And I'm like, yeah, I said, and I said, the only thing I'd like is I'd like to sleep in a bed that night.

I said, if I could hit a bed by like 1am, I'll even help you change the sheets.

I don't care.

And it felt so good to be able to turn that around and give that back to him.

The same thing he'd been able to give to me.

And I know that there's so many of my monogamous friends that would go, you know, like, how does that work?

It works amazingly beautifully.

Thank you.

It works seamlessly.

He has taught me so much, and he's been so very patient with me.

And the reality is I've been able to teach him things too.

I know, I know he's learned because he's been able to do other things with other people, you know, as far as like even communication with just on emotional topics, because like emotions are my wheelhouse and not always his, you know.

But yeah, it's just been, you know, it's been amazing.

That's lovely.

I feel incredibly fortunate for the journey that I've had so far.

And very fortunate that I've been able to be aware enough and have enough insight to learn the lessons on the way.

Sometimes it's looking backward to see them, but at least I did that.

Yeah.

And I really feel like that's part of what I'm supposed to do here is by taking those lessons and helping others to learn from my, from what I've learned and help.

You know, I'm not going to guide anybody necessarily, but I can help you navigate the map a little bit maybe.

You know, I don't want to be the one that guiding people because that sounds like responsibility.

I don't want nothing.

Yeah.

But absolutely.

You want to brainstorm your map.

You want to figure, you know, it's the whole globe and we can be whoever we want to be crossing the ocean.

I think that's kind of one of the big parts of this podcast is to like, document other people's stories and journeys with these kinds of discoveries and this part of their life and make it available to a wide swath of people who may or may not find comfort and a home in that lifestyle and community.

And yeah, so yeah, it's important to hear everybody's stories.

Like, no matter what kind of story it is and what you have to share from your experience and wisdom, it's all very important.

I'm coming to realize that like my body is not a coffin to carry pain.

I'll keep the lessons, thanks, but I need a place to park the pain.

And so that's what I'm working to use art for and help other people to do the same.

There's also this piece of communication that happens, like people need to express who they are, where they've been, what they've done, what's been done to them, like all those things.

But that's a conversation that quite oftentimes, number one, sometimes you have to need to have it way more than once.

And number two, there's a lot of people who can't sit for that conversation.

But if you can put it in a piece of art, the reality is, if you and I, we all sat at the bar and Taylor Swift walked in every day at 5.30 talking about her ex-boyfriend, we would not be too happy to see Taylor.

However, she sounds amazing on the radio and is making bank.

Yeah, I'll listen to a Taylor Swift song, but actually, I'm not going to say that I wouldn't want to just have a drink with Taylor Swift.

I'm not a Taylor Swift fan.

I'm not a Taylor Swift fan.

I want it on record.

But I wouldn't turn her down for a drink for her to bitch and complain about whatever she wanted to bitch and complain about.

Yeah, but the thing is, if you heard that every night, if you heard that at 5.30 every evening, that would get tiresome.

And there's times that trauma, you have to keep processing it because you have to keep looking at it in different perspectives.

Or, in my case, there's a whole bunch of us that are verbal processors, and we all got to say it our way.

It doesn't make it any easier.

So, but by taking that experience and creating art with it, she can put it out there.

She's heard.

She's seen, she's heard, she's acknowledged.

And anyone who has had that experience as well, also feels heard, seen and acknowledged.

It wouldn't be amazing if we could go out there and all, everybody create art as a way of communicating.

Because you're going to see your story in it.

I saw the Madrone mental.

And they had this beautiful picture, or painting, I guess, of a Madrone tree.

Do you know what a Madrone tree looks like?

A Madrone tree.

I know the name.

They're really beautiful on the inside, and on the outside, they're like all kind of weirdly shaped.

So the funny thing about it was, I looked at it, and I kept looking at it.

And I'm like, I asked the gal finally, I'm like, is that supposed to be alternative art?

Do you think?

And she's like, what do you mean?

I said, well, don't you see a woman in that picture?

I could see her upside down.

Yeah.

Do you see the woman in the picture?

That is the Madrone tree.

That's cool.

And so, and then the Madrone tree is like, is a real tree.

It's a real tree.

They kind of look like that.

And yeah, they're painting of a tree that's that's a painting of a tree.

So I thought maybe they had meant to paint it that way.

And maybe they did.

And she just didn't know.

She was, she was kind of a little flustered about me asking.

I was like, my person was with me.

She was like, I like, I think I kind of got upset her a little bit.

She said, I just think she was upset that you would dare to ask.

I'm like, oh, well.

Sorry.

Isn't this what like painting critique is all about though?

Yeah.

You talk about it and what you get out of it, you know?

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

I'm an aficionado.

I have sexual art.

Yes.

Actually I am.

That's probably the reason I saw it.

Yeah.

Otherwise I wouldn't have seen it.

So you do a lot of processing through art.

And you help other people process through art.

Yes.

What, aside from the madrone tree, are there any other catching memories that you have of something that made you feel a certain way or a really rewarding moment that you had or helping somebody else process the classes that you do?

One of the things I loved was when I was teaching at the mental health facility, my students, I was teaching one of the classes was empowered musical movement.

Because if you call it dance, nobody stands up.

And honestly, all movement was eligible.

If they had seen the way I dance, I could have gotten fired.

Because I danced like I danced at the club.

People just kind of beep off side to side.

We had one guy that did Tai Chi.

One lady, she moved around like a choo-choo train.

It was all valid, and the only person that would ever be asked to hit the door is the guy Snickerin.

He can go.

Yeah.

Because that doesn't fly in my classes.

Fuck right off.

You know?

And it came to a point after a couple of months, they're like, we want you to do a field trip.

I'm like, what do you mean?

They go, we want to dance at the club, but we're afraid to go.

And we never got to the point of getting to do the field trip.

But I actually have been talking to one of the club owners about bringing that class back to the community during the day, and then doing mirror images of them in facilities, and then doing like once a month having a field trip.

Or we'd go to the club at night.

And we'd dance together.

And dance together, and like come in early enough that it's not too packed, it's nice and gentle.

You can kind of acclimate in, and if you want to ditch out when lots of people come in, that's okay, you came, you saw, you danced.

You did the thing you came here to do, you're not obligated to do more.

Exactly, but you know, and then like little by little, but they wanted to do that.

And my other class was singing away, and they wanted me to take them to do karaoke.

So like those things absolutely are gonna happen.

We just haven't gotten, they're just not quite to that point yet.

Those are fantastic ideas.

Yes, because I know plenty of friends who are like, I don't know, I'm just not a dancer.

And I'm like, you, me and seven other people dancing, you're gonna do it.

It's just fun.

And it's just movement.

I also really have been enjoying ecstatic dance.

It's kind of more of a spiritual vein, but also not judgy at all.

People just move.

And that's been really cool to see.

What's the more about ecstatic dance?

Because I've heard about it before, but I don't really know the difference between that and whatever kind of...

Well, they have DJs.

They play different...

It's usually more of a new age kind of spiritual type of music, I guess you might say.

And there's no speaking on the dance floor.

That's one of the primary things about it.

It's not for conversation.

Yeah, not for conversation.

No speaking on the dance floor.

If you want to dance with somebody, you can ask.

But of course, there's big consent.

You don't touch people without consent, which is sometimes does happen at the club.

People get to drink and they don't think.

Otherwise, honestly, I get into a zone that I really don't see the other people.

I'm just doing my thing.

But when I do come out of my thing, what I see is just people just moving and feeling beautiful in their bodies and in the movement.

My daughter went to A3 and came home one day saying, well, the teacher was real happy with how I used the art medium, but I really like it.

I'm really proud of this piece.

I'm like, oh, what'd you do?

So she shows me a piece that she was supposed to create a little non-lion print out of.

And she has recreated a picture of her thigh when she was self-harming.

And she was like...

Tough content for school.

Yeah.

And she was saying, she goes, I'm so proud of this.

And I'm never going to be able to show it.

And I'm like, why not?

And she's like, Mom, like, it's too triggering.

And I'm like, no, it's not.

I said, you put it in a shadow box.

You put a curtain on the front of it.

You put your poem about self-care or self-harm and the knife on that.

With a tag on the side that says if they want to see the art, they can move the curtain.

Optional.

And so it's going to be at some point the show called Show Me Where It Hurts.

There are those that will misunderstand.

The art here is not the pain that is beautiful.

It is the perseverance.

Every piece that you see is a youth grasping to hold on to a life raft as they are pulled into the abyss.

The art in this show, each piece, has purchased the world another day, another week, another moment with that child.

There are times they will fill ten canvases in ten days because this is the only thing that keeps them from hurting themselves.

These are their stories.

These are their victories.

These are our opportunity to learn that art is more than a pretty picture or a lovely piece of music.

Art is communication.

Salvation is survival.

And it will be a fundraising and education.

That's very cool.

And we can copy and paste it on to LGBTQ, homelessness, addictions, you know, veterans.

Everyone can benefit from the formatting and have their voice.

I'm kind of on a sub box.

I apologize.

Can you tell I get a little passionate about this?

Yeah, we do.

And the other thing that I, there's a poem that I wrote that this poem, people that resonate with it, definitely resonate.

And it's been one of my best gifts, I think, that I've been able to give people.

I am too much.

Too many thoughts, too much energy, too much talking, too much ambition, too much processing, too many emotions, too much sexuality, too much creativity, too much action, too much passion, simply too much.

I see the sadness in the eyes of those others that have been labeled too much.

In the attitudes of those that wish to handle all of me, they either become resentful that I don't trust them or feel less than because deep down they know it's true.

In the fallout of relationships that become offended, thinking I believe myself to be better than them, I'm not better than anyone else.

I am more flawed.

I don't mean to be overwhelming.

I oftentimes wish I could stop.

I am simply being me, and for as much trouble and pain as it causes, I can be nothing else.

For years, I tried.

Tried to fit in someone else's black and white picture show.

Tried to fit in society's mold.

Tried to bend the will of another, any other.

But it never worked.

My colors always bled over.

My personality would not be contained.

My spine would spring back, launching whatever poor sucker was there upon it.

I'm yearning to come to terms with who I am, searching for enough cups to hold me without placing a lid on top.

It is not an easy venture.

There are some that want to hold all of me.

Some to possess me.

Some because they love me.

But how do I explain to them something I am just now learning?

That when allowed to be me, the actual me, I will overflow their cup and make a mess of everything.

Overwhelm them with all the thoughts, all the emotions, all the needs, all the cravings, all the waking hours, all the processing, all the fears, all the, all the, all the everything that is me.

I didn't ask to be this way.

It is my magic.

And my merciless curse to be overwhelming, to be outstanding, to be too much.

I've tried to medicate it away.

I've tried to run from it.

I've tried to deny it.

But around every corner I turn, there I am, bigger than life, not able to hide, more than a little scary, even to me.

I am beginning to see that my only hope is to dance with the storm that is me, to hold on tight to the hurricane, to find peace in the eye of the storm, to allow myself to focus all that energy by accepting it.

Yes, for all the negative connotation, I am too much, but I wouldn't change it.

Is the rose any less beautiful because it has thorns?

Is the rainbow any less inspiring because she follows the storm?

To all of those who, like me, are seen as too much, let us fill their cups.

Let us be the calm in the eye of the storm.

Let us rock their world with our intensity.

Let us feel no shame for being bigger than they can imagine handling.

And in all of our overwhelming, overflowing technical radiance, we will one day be celebrated as the wildfire that brought Flora and Fauna unremembered and unimagined.

As the rose so sweet, as the hurricane that inspired rainbows.

In our wake, there is birth and renewal and inspiration.

And yes, we are too much, because sometimes that is exactly what the world needs.

Bless me.

You're welcome.

That's probably one of my best gifts that I've been able to give through my own art.

That's fantastic.

I got to tell my partner about therapy through art.

Maybe I'll shove her your way to do some processing through art.

She's very much an artist who has lost touch of her doing her art because she has to dip into the difficult feelings and she does not like to tap into them now.

She misses the things that she loves to do.

Yeah, and the thing is you start small.

And we do set it up so that my classes have a specific structure.

So we have two facilitators.

One person facilitates the class, the other is a mental wellness support person.

Because I have seen it happen when we are singing songs and we sing somebody's grandmother's favorite and she passed away two weeks ago, and they leave the room.

And I can have the class and take care of them.

However, that's why we have a support.

And we do check in at the beginning of all the classes, and so it's just, it's structured to be supportive, but not weighty.

Where are these classes?

They're going to be coming out.

Right now, I actually just put on FetLife that I'll be starting my developmental wellness through Kink class again, which will be on Zoom, and I'm hoping to find a venue that will have at least a monthly one.

And I taught that.

I facilitated that during quarantine.

And then I also, the others are not, we don't have locations for them yet.

So right now, I'm currently looking for locations in the community for the different art classes that go.

And some of them are kinky, but most of them are standard.

Yeah, if you need something inappropriate, just come up and say hello.

Chances are something will pop out of my mouth.

I can't be, you know, my friends give me a hard time.

They say, you know, all the instructions say for the parties, vanilla to the door.

And they're like, Kyss, you're not even vanilla out your door.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Subspace Exploration Project.

Every episode, you can join us for a plunge into kink, non-monogamy, sex education, deconstructing the gender binary, queer culture and building healthy communities.

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